You think aliens are laughing at us for using

[Jaan]

A bunch of questions about putting a solar panel on a roof

Well, standard rigid solar panels wouldn't be the answer for you for a few reasons, but if you're really interested in putting a solar panel on your roof then this is what you want:

https://www.uni-solar.com

I've used a couple of their panels before ... being flexible comes in handy for some applications. They work differently too so they have strengths and weaknesses compared to standard rigid solar panels. I'm sure you'll find answers on the web site.

[Jaan]

I dont think you understand what I'm getting at.

He understood you completely.

If we can figure out how to take mud that is trapped thousands of feet under the earth and convert it into enough force to move a 2 ton vehicle across a continent, then we can figure out a way of production hydrogen more efficiently then we are doing now.

That "mud" is what's left of thousands of years of solar energy trapped by plants and animals. It's not a matter of figuring out how to do it, it's a matter of how much effort it takes to get at that energy. That "mud" is like finding that your great great grandmother stashed her life savings in the floorboards. Once it's gone though, it's gone and it doesn't look like we'll find anything that easy to get at again.

I'm pretty sure you could take that hydrogen and keep producing more and more and more hydrogen.

Sure, go ahead. No, really, go ahead and do it. You'll be rich beyond the dreams of avarice (c:

[CoolHand]

He understood you completely.
That "mud" is what's left of thousands of years of solar energy trapped by plants and animals. It's not a matter of figuring out how to do it, it's a matter of how much effort it takes to get at that energy. That "mud" is like finding that your great great grandmother stashed her life savings in the floorboards. Once it's gone though, it's gone and it doesn't look like we'll find anything that easy to get at again.

Sure, go ahead. No, really, go ahead and do it. You'll be rich beyond the dreams of avarice (c:

Exactly.

Can you use any and all methods of electrical energy to produce hydrogen?

Yes.

Can you then burn that hydrogen to produce electricity?

Yes.

Can you use that electricity to produce more hydrogen?

Yes.

Will you ever get more energy out of the system than you put in (like an atomic explosion)?

No. Never. Its not going to happen.

Can you burn every bit of hydrogen you ever make to generate electricity, and then augment that power with more electricity from other clean sources to produce the exact same amount of hydrogen that you had to start with?

Sure, but that's spending an awful lot of money to accomplish absolutely nothing.

Lets look at this mathematically:

You use wind to get A kW of electricity.

You use A to get X cf of H2.

You then burn X to generate Y kW of power (so now your power = Y+A)

Y+A != 2X, and it never will.

So, in order to get 2X, you need to have A+Y+B (B = additional power from some other source, be it wind or whatever).

Now, A+Y+B = 2X but A+B = ZX (Z being some number greater than 1, but less than 2 that represents the amount of H2 that A+B kW of power can generate). By burning that first batch of H2, you just slid the function along the axis. You don't get any exponents there, its a linear function.

See where this is going?

Burning the H2 to make more H2 is pointless. You will never have any left to use anywhere else, because it takes all of the energy that it can produce and then some to reproduce that same volume of H2 from water.

Now, using nuclear power or wind power or hydro power or fusion power or whatever to produce H2 is not pointless. That's the way it needs to be done, but we cannot do it with the current level of technology.

I'm not saying that H2 is a bad idea, or that we don't need to go that way, or even that its impossible, I'm just saying that your idea that once you get a little H2 that it will exponentially increase like an atomic reaction is highly flawed, and absolutely impossible.

If you don't get the explanation this time, you're never going to.

[Jonneh]

Hay guys whut about all that nuclear power! Using the power of batman it can provide lots of clean energy! Energy that can be used to make hydrogen! Free Hydrogen for all!

Also the french are working on a fusion reactor, which will be awesome providing that containing and maintaining the reactor uses less energy than it produces.

[NigelF]

Hay guys whut about all that nuclear power! Using the power of batman it can provide lots of clean energy! Energy that can be used to make hydrogen! Free Hydrogen for all!

Also the french are working on a fusion reactor, which will be awesome providing that containing and maintaining the reactor uses less energy than it produces.

One of the big reasons we've overlooked as to why hydrogen isnt a vialbe widespread option quite yet is fuel cell technology. We just havent advanced the technology to store hydrogen safely in large enough quantities for commuter vehicles. But that will come soon enough.


And I know that Daimler-Chrysler has buttloads invested in Hydrogen research and powerplants. I'll have to see if I can find out where they're at now, but a year or so ago I know that they had opened more than a few Hydrogen power plants through a paternership.

[Jaan]

Also the french are working on a fusion reactor ...

Sorry, but that just doesn't instill me with a whole lot of confidence. Have you ever driven a French car? They have heated rear windows so your hands don't get cold when you push them

[Lee]

when there is profit to be made out of an "alternative" energy source, then we'll see it widely available.

[PyRo]

Sorry, but that just doesn't instill me with a whole lot of confidence. Have you ever driven a French car? They have heated rear windows so your hands don't get cold when you push them

Ever driven a ford truck? They have cupholders on the tailgate so you have a place to put your drink while pushing it.

[Demobilized]

It would take solar fields the size of Vermont to power the entire United states. Not too bad considering putting panels on roofs of a city like NY would easily take care of it. The problem is we don't have an effictive way to store it, lead batteries just aren't going to cut it.

In Denmark wind power is the new fad, producing 20% of the countries energy, but here in the US no one will sacrifice their "view" in order to put turbines up.

Fission works well, but for some reason we refuse to go back to it. We have had our accidents granted, but 80% of France's power if nuclear. We are also looking into ways to recycle the plutonium after it is used to cut down on waste.

Fusion is been worked on to create plasma, but until now has yet to be effective. The facility is being built on the French and *insert country I forgot* border.

There are ways to answer the energy crisis, we will surive believe it or not.

[octane2079]

Umm one thing we have been overlooking is that the production of hydrogen from electrical sources such as coal or other fossil fueled fire plants would require so much energy that our carbon outputs would more than double. So until we find a clean and efficient way to produce hydrogen it will not be a viable concept.