Does A School Have The Right To Confiscate...

[SCpoloRicker]

maybe the principal should earn echos respect then?

Interesting. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Timmee]

Hmm on a seperate note, the punishment in suspension is not having to miss school it is that normally you are not allowed to make up any work that your miss while you are suspended which really hurts your grade. A 0 on a missed test that you cant get any more credit for is a real grade killer.

So if you care about your grades and your future at all it is a bad punishment

You really out witted your principal on that one.

Damn, I wish it was like that when I got suspended . When I was in 7th grade ('86), I got into a few fights, which landed me in suspension. The school I went to had a suspension area, where each student had their own desk and small room (about 6' wide x 10' deep, standard height ceilings, with a door and green walls). All the days schoolwork was brought to the suspended people, and that was all they were allowed to do. They had no contact with any other person, except for at lunchtime (and that was only to get food, which was brought back to the small rooms). Usually, the schoolwork lasted 2-3 hours, which meant you pretty much sat there doing absolutely nothing the rest of the time. No tv, no books other than textbooks, no drawing, no singing, etc....


My take on Echo's situation is, you should have kept your calm, talked respectfully to the school staff, and if that didn't work, call a parent and get them involved.

[thefuzz]

Look what Echo did was wrong. Who cares if he got "disrespected." Its not illegal to feel disrespected. Its illegal to curse and cause a scene. I would've locked him up in my state if he acted like that (if he was 17) for disordely conduct. You know what happens to adults who act like that because someone "disrespected" them? They're in jail. As I said before...I'm a cop...I get disrespected more than any of you 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. I've only lost it a few times and cussed at someone (usually when they ran from me...I hate running), but I still didnt' act like he did.

New Jersey vs. TLO wouldn't apply in this situation...I forget the specifics of the case, but it didn't have to do with computer storage devices. Who knows, maybe there's caselaw out there that deals with that, but I don't know it because we have school resource officers so I don't have to deal with it lol.

[Lohman446]

Look what Echo did was wrong. Who cares if he got "disrespected." Its not illegal to feel disrespected. Its illegal to curse and cause a scene. I would've locked him up in my state if he acted like that (if he was 17) for disordely conduct. You know what happens to adults who act like that because someone "disrespected" them? They're in jail. As I said before...I'm a cop...I get disrespected more than any of you 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. I've only lost it a few times and cussed at someone (usually when they ran from me...I hate running), but I still didnt' act like he did.

New Jersey vs. TLO wouldn't apply in this situation...I forget the specifics of the case, but it didn't have to do with computer storage devices. Who knows, maybe there's caselaw out there that deals with that, but I don't know it because we have school resource officers so I don't have to deal with it lol.

I agree here that it gets iffy, but from what I can see on the discussions of the decisions the school administrators are essentially "day-care providers" and act as your guardian when your parents are not present - not as "agents of the state" or officers.. As such, as long as they have your parents backing they can do most anything they want and more than an officer can without. I'm sure you can attest an informant can do far more than you can in regards to gaining information legally than you can. As long as they are not law enforcement officers in the eyes of the court your rights against search are basically non-existant. Of course, there rights to search over your parents objections raised before evidence of wrong-doing are not that far reaching and may be subject to civil issues.

[Glickman]

Typical response from another 16 year old smart aleck.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."
-- Plato

maxama10, i wont defend you for what you said, that WAS pretty dumb, but I'm tired of seeing this ignorance for the younger generation everywhere on this forum.

I do completely agree with you Dryden of what you suggest that echo do. I completely agree he should approach the principal with an apology, and hope that he only gets 40 lashes.

I do though, want to address your condescention, though it may be justified for maxama, there is no need to place a stereotype like that, as nearly EVERY time i post in a thread, someone says something about either mine, or another person's age, why? i dont know, maybe as a self-defense mechanism for intellectual bankruptcy.

It is obvious that while possibly not in this case, but very often before our words are looked at, we are labeled "smart aleck" 's

/rant

incase you were wondering im 17 (atleast as of last week )


but yea.. echo. you loose all your rights in school aside from your natural rights. (Just see how people can't wear any shirt they want. You dont have the 1st amendment in school)

funny actually. while you might or might not be doing something malicious to the system, im the same age, but i will get just as angry as the principal.

maybe thats because i work as one of the administrators :rofl:

so dont try that in my school

[bleachit]

New Jersey vs. TLO wouldn't apply in this situation...I forget the specifics of the case, but it didn't have to do with computer storage devices. Who knows, maybe there's caselaw out there that deals with that, but I don't know it because we have school resource officers so I don't have to deal with it lol.

I would disagree with your statement. Supreme Court cases are not important on their specific content but by how they can be applied in other situations.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/tlo.html

having just skimmed through this, reading much of it, the Supreme Court ruled that the school officials were justified in searching a purse, finding cigarettes and roling papers, thus justifying further searching (as the searcher knew that rolling papers often indicated drug use). The searcher found more evidence of drug use and found marijuana upon further searching of the purse.

how this can pertain is, whether or not the principal had reason to believe that by searching the flash drive he would obtain evidence that echo was breaking the law or violating school policy.

Against the child's interest in privacy must be set the substantial interest of teachers and administrators in maintaining discipline in the classroom and on school grounds.... ...How, then, should we strike the balance between the schoolchild's legitimate expectations of privacy and the school's equally legitimate need to maintain an environment in which learning can take place? It is evident that the school setting requires some easing of the restrictions to which searches by public authorities are ordinarily subject. The warrant requirement, in particular, is unsuited to the school environment: requiring a teacher to obtain a warrant before searching a child suspected of an infraction of school rules (or of the criminal law) would unduly interfere with the maintenance of the swift and informal disciplinary procedures needed in the schools. Just as we have in other cases dispensed with the warrant requirement when "the burden of obtaining a warrant is likely to frustrate the governmental purpose behind the search," we hold today that school officials need not obtain a warrant before searching a student who is under their authority.

...the substantial need of teachers and administrators for freedom to maintain order in the schools does not require strict adherence to the requirement that searches be based on probable cause to believe that the subject of the search has violated or is violating the law. Rather, the legality of a search of a student should depend simply on the reasonableness, under all the circumstances, of the search. Determining the reasonableness of any search involves a twofold inquiry: first, one must consider "whether the . . . action was justified at its inception;" second, one must determine whether the search as actually conducted "was reasonably related in scope to the circumstances which justified the interference in the first place." Under ordinary circumstances, a search of a student by a teacher or other school official will be "justified at its inception" when there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that the search will turn up evidence that the student has violated or is violating either the law or the rules of the school. Such a search will be permissible in its scope when the measures adopted are reasonably related to the objectives of the search and not excessively intrusive in light of the age and sex of the student and the nature of the infraction.

basically, the principal can say the search was justified because based on the fact that the flash drive was in the school's computer and your past "problems" that he had reasonable suspicion to believe that you were either violating school rules, or possibly in violation of the law.

"He then tells me, oh because of what you have on here (some stupid programs I use at friends houses) your in a lot of trouble."

that statement says to me that the programs were either against school rules or in violation of the law.

the flash drive (as far as I can determine from your posts) was not allowed to be used in school. it was in the computer and therefore since you werent supposed to be using it and it was in the school's computer, there is reason to believe there may be something on there that shouldnt be there....either to harm the school, against school rules, or illegal.. judging by what you said the principal found, that was the case.

[phantomhitman]

One thing you never, ever, never eververververver do is piss off people in administration. Wether its a cop, admissions, dmv, or principle. They will make your life suck even more. I do know that if they want to search your locker, bookbag, or car, they can. So them searching a flash drive should be allowed also. However, there needs to be probable cause to search. I just do not see a teacher running up and grabbing it for no reason at all.

So whatever happened to this case.....?

[sbpyro]

To me the flash drive would be equivelant to a floppy disk. (Yes the 5.25" were still around when I went to high school) Plugging it into the school computer gives them a reason to search the files (however whether or not your average high school educator can determine if there was a harmful file is very much in doubt.) In this age where the school computer can be used to unleash harmful viruses or used to spam ppl, it seems like there is reasonable doubt. But I'm sure the school's policy on flash drive is either non existant or very out of date. Your reaction was not unexpected, but you need to maintain composure there is no need to escalate the situation. More can be accomplished by telling your parents your side of the story, and having a parent teacher (in this case probably the principle) meeting to bring to light the whole story and hopefully a good resolution.

And when you talk to your parents don't start with :For once would you please take my side

[TheDuelist]

We don't know. Echo hasn't been on in awhile to tell us what happened. Its a pretty good indication that he is probably not allowed to use a computer for awhile. Thats pure speculation of course.

[Boski51]

We don't know. Echo hasn't been on in awhile to tell us what happened. Its a pretty good indication that he is probably not allowed to use a computer for awhile. Thats pure speculation of course.

Amazing how that happens. Bad choices equal bad results. That sounds like a universal truth or something.

Boski

[SCpoloRicker]

We don't know. Echo hasn't been on in awhile to tell us what happened. Its a pretty good indication that he is probably not allowed to use a computer for awhile. Thats pure speculation of course.

Yeah, becaue Echo has never withheld facts about his various screw-ups...

Never, ever.

[slade]

the more i think about it, the less sympathy i have for echo. i missed the fact that there was a hacking program on the drive, plus i didnt consider the fact that he has been in trouble in the past and most likely has a less than stellar relationship with the staff. however, i still think that the principal had no right to look on the drive, and it should have been given back at the end of the day (he needed it, hadnt done anything wrong with it, and couldnt do anything wrong, as long as he didnt bring it back to school). the way echo responded didnt help the situation.

[magman007]

haha echo sucks at life. nuff said.

[Lohman446]

Yeah, becaue Echo has never withheld facts about his various screw-ups...

Never, ever.

I'm concerned - are you obsessed enough with Echo that you remembered that, or that you searched that down?

/Not sure which is worse

[SCpoloRicker]

I remembered the thread, specifically because it was one of several incidences where Echo419 misrepresented the facts of a situation.

Cursing at an administration official, and just generally throwing a hissy fit.

/I did have to search
//PORCH!!