american flag

[Army]

Army: I wounded what exactly did the Confederacy stand for?

Better put a Band-aid on that wound

CSA was all about states rights, and less federal government in their daily lives. Recall, that only about 3% of southern farmers owned slaves in the south (until the 1850's about 35% of northern farmers did), which makes the war over slavery argument a silly one. Commerce protection was passed for many industries in the north, but southern textiles were left out and suffered internationally for it. Most federal roads and railways went east/west, rather than north/south(mostly because of geography), furthering the divide between the CSA and the Union.

The CSA believed that being independant of Washington beaurocracy would better serve their needs and lives. The Union did not think so. The result was war over ideologies.

Recall, that everyone involved in the war was an American first, Reb or Blue second.

[hardr0ck68]

That is what i thought you would say. I would like to point you to this page, you can read it here or from any other number of places: http://www.usconstitution.net/csa.html after reading that one could say it "makes the war over states rights argument a silly one."

If you read through you will notice that the CSA constitution was just about the same as the one we know and love today. I ask you to find for me and point out anything that would suggest the states would have more power than they do today, or did in the Union.

The truth is the Southers did not want to free their slaves, at the time maybe only 3% of southern farmers owned slaves but the slaves made up roughly 50% of the southern population I point you to: http://www.civilwarhome.com/population1860.htm


Say what you like about States rights, but Jefferson Davis had NO plans to give up the power of his new little government.

[Army]

That is what i thought you would say. I would like to point you to this page, you can read it here or from any other number of places: http://www.usconstitution.net/csa.html after reading that one could say it "makes the war over states rights argument a silly one."

If you read through you will notice that the CSA constitution was just about the same as the one we know and love today. I ask you to find for me and point out anything that would suggest the states would have more power than they do today, or did in the Union.

The truth is the Southers did not want to free their slaves, at the time maybe only 3% of southern farmers owned slaves but the slaves made up roughly 50% of the southern population I point you to: http://www.civilwarhome.com/population1860.htm


Say what you like about States rights, but Jefferson Davis had NO plans to give up the power of his new little government.

Yes, the US and CSA Constitutions are very much the same. The CSA wanted to adhere more closely to it, the US did not. It wasn't about giving up any power, it was about following the laws.

[M98Punk]

It wasn't about following the laws it was about interpertation of the laws.... and the southerns just wanting to be lazy...seriously they just couldn't give up Jim and his friends, the fact that is was many times cheaper to using immigrants from Europe just didn't float their boat. And the argument about the lack of infostructural help (may have just invented a work) is foolish, yeah they didn't get a equal share of build up of rails and roads...but there wasn't anything there and no one wanted to move down to the sparcly but still developed land in the South instead they wanted to go West where there was all that land that the Indians didn't need anymore. It's like the obnoxious rep for Alaska yelling about there not being enough bridges in Alaska.

[hardr0ck68]

Yes, the US and CSA Constitutions are very much the same. The CSA wanted to adhere more closely to it, the US did not. It wasn't about giving up any power, it was about following the laws.

By more closly you mean they wanted to see people who were African or AMERICAN born decendants of africansAS F'in PROPERTY?

It wasent enough they count 2/3 of a white PERSON (a human who is only counted as 2/3 of what they were given by birth) but that last 1/3 was undoubtly PROPERTY to be bought and sold as those wealthy 3% saw fit.

Thats what your stars and bars repersent, oppression, crouption and FILTH.

I only wish that radical reconstruction had lasted until the 1960's

[SCpoloRicker]

Cheers

I'm out of this thread, but for the proverbial final shot:

Recon by Fire I never mentioned disrespecting any flag. Period. Full stop.

I offered a "we've got different views, your argument is sound." post. You chose to ignore that, and proceed to lump me in with rabid anti-American behavior and values. You obviously don't know my personal politics, and perhaps ironically, you'd probably agree with me on just about everything.

There are more appropriate places to discuss politics. I don't like to do it here, but...

You're wearing your bum for a hat.

[kosmo]

From a factual point of view, the flag is a piece of cloth. Also, our constitution guarantees a right to freedom of speech. So if I have to put up with some yahoo sporting the stars and stripes on his truck with bumper stickers indicating that the flag stands for Kansas school boards preaching the bible as science and that god and our government hates gays, then that yahoo should also have to put up with some other (likely much more educated) yahoo turning the flag upside down because our presidential administration advocates torturing prisoners of war and places a higher priority on securing Iraqi oil fields than helping thousands impoverished hurricane survivors in our own country.

[Army]

By more closly you mean they wanted to see people who were African or AMERICAN born decendants of africansAS F'in PROPERTY?

It wasent enough they count 2/3 of a white PERSON (a human who is only counted as 2/3 of what they were given by birth) but that last 1/3 was undoubtly PROPERTY to be bought and sold as those wealthy 3% saw fit.

Thats what your stars and bars repersent, oppression, crouption and FILTH.

I only wish that radical reconstruction had lasted until the 1960's

Better look behind, your ignorance is hanging out for everyone to see.

[Army]

From a factual point of view, the flag is a piece of cloth. Also, our constitution guarantees a right to freedom of speech. So if I have to put up with some yahoo sporting the stars and stripes on his truck with bumper stickers indicating that the flag stands for Kansas school boards preaching the bible as science and that god and our government hates gays, then that yahoo should also have to put up with some other (likely much more educated) yahoo turning the flag upside down because our presidential administration advocates torturing prisoners of war and places a higher priority on securing Iraqi oil fields than helping thousands impoverished hurricane survivors in our own country.

Hmmmm, seems yours is too.

[Recon by Fire]

Flag burning = disrespect to the NATION.



FACT.

[kosmo]

Oh Im ignorant. Gee I guess that proves to me that Im wrong about everything Ive said, good argument. And the point to disrespecting the nation is because with the crap that is pulled in the name of the nation, it deserves to get disrespected every now and again.

[Recon by Fire]

And the point to disrespecting the nation is because with the crap that is pulled in the name of the nation, it deserves to get disrespected every now and again.

I truly feel bad for those out there who have such loathing for their native country. NO country or person out there should be living in a glass house.

You have made the best point of all..the problem with so many out there is RESPECT.

[Army]

Oh Im ignorant. Gee I guess that proves to me that Im wrong about everything Ive said, good argument. And the point to disrespecting the nation is because with the crap that is pulled in the name of the nation, it deserves to get disrespected every now and again.

Ummm...what?
Since you brought it up, please bring forth any actual proof of torture conducted by the USA. Oh, and don't bother with Abu Ghraib, that barely equaled a decent High School hazing.

One other thing, where does it say anywhere, that the US President is obligated to help anyone that refuses to take care of themselves? Also, I'd like to see where it says that the Federal Govt. is supposed to arbitrarily step all over the city and state authorities? Isn't the welfare of New Orleans during a pending disaster, fall directly on the shoulders of the Mayor and city elect? Doesn't the Governor have the duty to provide before/during/and after responses and relief when a Cat-5 hurricane is 4 days away?

Do you have any clue as to what FEMA actually does? I'll give you a quick hint, it isn't taking care of private citizens in lieu of city and state authority.

Yes, your ignorance is flapping in the wind.

[kosmo]

Recon, go ahead and make more words capitalized. It makes me agree with you more. And I dont loathe this country. If I did, I seriously doubt I would be an nco in its army. I loathe idiots who do stupid things in the name of the nation and then say Im being disrespectful to the nation for arguing with those stupid actions. I also loathe idiots who dont do those stupid things, and yet still argue that I cant denounce those stupid things because it disrespects the country. Our country is built upon the knowledge that the government is going to screw the pooch and our people have the right to say and do something about it.

Army, if you seriously think that we arent torturing people, youre blind. If I ever find any unclassified proof of it, Ill be sure to link it. For now just go ahead and write a letter to Senator McCain and tell him that he shouldnt be pushing for anti torture legislation because it is a waste of his time to outlaw something we dont do anyway, and see what he says. And when youre done writing that letter, go ask VP Cheney why he is lobbying for exceptions to the no cruel and inhuman treatment rule so the CIA can get information from terrorists. And as for Katrina, you can write another letter on that one too. This one goes to Mr Bush himself. Go ahead and ask him why he said the federal government did not do its job right. Because according to you they apparently did. Theres a wealth of information on the internet about the failings of the government at all levels, federal, state, and city. If its not too disrespectful to your precious country, I would advise you educate yourself on it.

[Army]

OK, so no proof of torture, and no answers about Katrina.

What exactly was the Federal Governments job concerning state and municipal responsibilities?