Does anyone know anything about commercial mowers?

[Steelrat]

I'm preparing to fire my lawn maintenance company, and I figure I might as well just do it myself, to ensure it's done right. I have about 1.5 acres with a lot of landscaping, so I'd think a ZTR would work out best for me, so I don't have to spend all day mowing. Now, it's pretty clear that the residential ZTRs like they sell at home depot just aren't built to last, and that means I gotta go commercial.

I've been looking around, and really am focusing on three mowers at this point:

SCAG tiger cub 48" 24 hp B&S. Easily the heaviest-duty of the mowers I looked at, very solid. Ran it around, and it had plenty of power. The B&S ELS engine seems to be part of their value package for the cub, but it's not a vanguard, and opinions are mixed as to it's long-term durability. Dealer is close by, seemed friendly, and offered to deal on the price.



Next up is the Hustler Mini Z 44" 19 HP. The dealership didn't have one, but I looked at the mini fastrack, which looked very wimpy compared to the Scag. The mini z is supposed to be more substantial, and gets good reviews. The dealer was a tool, however, and quoted me MSRP. The salesman also acted like he had better things to do than talk to me. I think the engine might have been a honda or kohler, though the dealer wasn't good at handing out any details. He seemed to be steering me towards a cub cadet garden tractor, which is NOT what I want.



Finally, I looked at the Ferris 1500Z with a 48" deck and 21 hp kawasaki. This is supposed to be a good motor. Ferris is alone in having a suspension, which is interesting. Not as rugged as the scag, but better than the hustlers I saw. And the price was about 1K lower than the other two due to a special deal.



Anyone have any thoughts on any of these?

[Indignant]

I know the the angry drunk guy runs a gardening buisiness, but i don't have any experience past my suburban lawn mowing, haha.

[PyRo]

I rode these around for the summer I did landscapeing.

http://www.walkermowers.com/

They actually have a vacuum and will pick up leaves, twigs, etc. When it gets full just drive the thing to the waste pile and dump it out. You can quite easially swap to a side discharge deck, or get them without any bagger at all.
The ones I used had a three cylinder diesel motor which would mow for a day or sometimes two before needing fuel.
The deck interchageablity makes it easy to go anywhere from 36 to 48 (I think it was 48) in either side discharge or the bagger.
It left the lawns looking better then any of the walkbehinds we had except the little 2 cycle lawnboy.
I never rode any of the other mowers but it is very easy to manouver and make nice little circles around trees and other objects.
The catcher never clogged up and would fill up every time. We had it packed with enough wet grass that when we dumped it into a green pail it took me and another guy a whole lot of effort to move it.


You do have to take care of them though because they will break. Someone ran one into a curb at full speed (which is pretty fast) and the front wheel on the deck along with the mount was shot. One of them had a cooling problem that the "shop" couldn't figure. I maintain it was a head gasket that went bad when they were overheating the balls out of it running it with a bad thermostat. Aside from that their was never any trouble with them.

Other than that the only downside is the diesel with the bagger goes for about $16,000. Wither a Kholer gas job and no bagging system is probably comparable to the other mowers you have in price but you've giving up the two best features of the mower.

[PyRo]

Also try www.lawnsite.com

[Steelrat]

Already a member of lawnsite and lawncafe

I'll probably just go with the Ferris. The savings will let me buy a nice Stihl trimmer and blower, with money left over to boot.

I was thinking it might be fun to do part-time mowing locally too. We'll have to see how my lawn turns out.

[ntn4502]

we own one of the biggest scags produced, turbo deisel and all

[PyRo]

I'm preparing to fire my lawn maintenance company, and I figure I might as well just do it myself, to ensure it's done right.

I misread that in the middle of the night. I thought you had a lawn maintenace company.

[Steelrat]

I misread that in the middle of the night. I thought you had a lawn maintenace company.

No, I just don't believe in buying disposable items if I can help it. Lets be honest, the mowers sold at Home Depot, Lowes, and the like just aren't built to last. Yes, that includes the John Deeres. Tractors are marginal for mowing anyways, and the ZTRs sold at those places are just too cheaply made. You cannot get a quality new ZTR for $3000, they cheap them out somewhere to meet that price point.

[TheAngryDrunkenRussian]

Scag's are cheap but when you start getting problems get rid of them its just a down hill effect from there. Landscape companies buy these and they last about 3 seasons then off to the scrap steel yard they go.

Hustlers are a dying breed I haven't had to mush expirence with these but other companies are phasing them out at a very quick rate.

Ferris is a good company that kawasaki motor is one tuff beast. But I wouldn't go with a Z from them if you where looking a walk/ride behind then go for it. I send my 12 yr old 48in walk behind in ditch's, my guys dumped it off a trailer going down the freeway smashed into a car and it still ran. But my bud that owns lawns r us uses them and has to replace them every 5 yrs and are gas hogs.

I'd say look at diesel models if your going commerical. yeah its heavier but the run longer with fuel and life (about 10yrs with less repairs). Life of a diesel Z is about 1500 Hours, thats alot of grass. Other companies that you should look into is Toro, Kubota, or ExMark Toro being the best. Pay a little more but you get quality.

For about 1.5 acres personaly would use a Toro 325 72" 4wd Unfortuantly Toro doesn't make the 325 anymore, they stop making them this year. But this is the oldest design(dates back to the 70's) and probably the most used mower in the market. They are all mechinical really its PTO is clutch drivin (thus the sqreaching sound when engaging the deck). Reversed Gearbox which is a solid shaft . My old 94 model has a 28 hp Mitisubshi diesel but newer ones have 30hp Kubota. With its offset out front deck allows you to go under pine trees, around beds, and polls. Brand new they run 25K with all the options but if you watch auctions/sale paper/ or municpal sales you can pick them up for as low as 4k. If your worried about woking hours mine has 5,500 hours on it and still runs like a champ.

Pyro don't make me puke I demo'd one of those OMG talk about a piece of junk. The first field I cut I warped the deck.

we own one of the biggest scags produced, turbo deisel and all

Mines bigger

[Steelrat]

Scag's are cheap but when you start getting problems get rid of them its just a down hill effect from there. Landscape companies buy these and they last about 3 seasons then off to the scrap steel yard they go.

Hustlers are a dying breed I haven't had to mush expirence with these but other companies are phasing them out at a very quick rate.

Ferris is a good company that kawasaki motor is one tuff beast. But I wouldn't go with a Z from them if you where looking a walk/ride behind then go for it. I send my 12 yr old 48in walk behind in ditch's, my guys dumped it off a trailer going down the freeway smashed into a car and it still ran. But my bud that owns lawns r us uses them and has to replace them every 5 yrs and are gas hogs.

I'd say look at diesel models if your going commerical. yeah its heavier but the run longer with fuel and life (about 10yrs with less repairs). Life of a diesel Z is about 1500 Hours, thats alot of grass. Other companies that you should look into is Toro, Kubota, or ExMark Toro being the best. Pay a little more but you get quality.

For about 1.5 acres personaly would use a Toro 325 72" 4wd Unfortuantly Toro doesn't make the 325 anymore, they stop making them this year. But this is the oldest design(dates back to the 70's) and probably the most used mower in the market. They are all mechinical really its PTO is clutch drivin (thus the sqreaching sound when engaging the deck). Reversed Gearbox which is a solid shaft . My old 94 model has a 28 hp Mitisubshi diesel but newer ones have 30hp Kubota. With its offset out front deck allows you to go under pine trees, around beds, and polls. Brand new they run 25K with all the options but if you watch auctions/sale paper/ or municpal sales you can pick them up for as low as 4k. If your worried about woking hours mine has 5,500 hours on it and still runs like a champ.

No way I can afford a diesel, way out of my price range, though I'd love to get one. From what I've read, the commercial gas engines are getting well above 1000 hours, and even 2-3000 hours, so I'd hope a diesel would have far more life than that.

I liked the exmarks, though they seemed just about the same as the ferris, only without the suspension. Toros are nice to, and supposedly have the best cut, but they are pricier than the exmarks and ferris. I have talkd to people who had Kubota ZTRs, and apparently they cut like crap, though they run fine.

Would you take an eXmark or toro ZTR ahead of a ferris, and if so, why? Does toro have the best cut quality? I'm not looking to go over $6K, since it's mainly for personal use on my 1.25 acres. That being said, if people in my neighborhood like the way my lawn works, I wouldn't mind setting up a part-time business, though it takes a good amount of work (licenses, insurance, etc etc) to set up, as I'm sure you know. Therefore, I'd need a machine that can handle the extra use.

[PyRo]

Pyro don't make me puke I demo'd one of those OMG talk about a piece of junk. The first field I cut I warped the deck.

What did you hit? Hit thing and hit big ruts with it and yes it's going to break.

[hvacman250]

I was in the same situation a couple years ago. I thought about commercial ZTR's vs. the ones at Lowes. I ended up buying a 50" Cub Cadet ZTR and am extremely pleased. Think about it this way: commercial landscapers use their mowers 6-8+ hrs a day, so they need a $10,000 - $15,000 mower. I, on the other hand, use mine 2-3 hrs per week. I would expect them to last the same number of years in service. Same service hours? NO.

I have hit several large trees, ran over an 8" landscaping stone with no damage to the deck/blade. I was amazed. It chopped the cement block in half with no damage. My wife plays on it and it has withstood tons of abuse. And BTW, it has over 100 hrs on it.

The only thing that has gone wrong is I lost one of the nuts that holds the deck on (must have vibrated loose). I picked one up at Tractor Supply. Problem fixed.

If I depended on a mower running 8 hrs a day, I would have gone commercial. If you are only using it a few hours a week, dont overlook others.

My 2 cent.

[TheAngryDrunkenRussian]

First up ExMark is owned by Toro. But you don't get the option like a Toro. ExMarks are under powered when cutting taller grass. ExMarks are lighter and tend to "Float" on swamper terrain which is bad to me. They aren't to user friendly such as the seat is bolted to the frame, you use only a foot pedel to pick the deck up, only one tire drives at one time which can lead to free wheeling on slopes, with being as compact as they are tend to lead to roll overs/being to heavy in the rear of the machine. Decks are belt drivin which tend to lead to gearbox problems vs. shaft or engine driven decks. Personally I don't like there control set up either.

Kubota's did cut like crap. They are currently under contract to Toro for just engines. They have stepped up their game in there mowing side. The reason why they cut like crap is that landscape companies tend to take off the deck's outside caster wheels because the gouge out the lawn thus making them scalp alot. Older models don't have a floating deck, the new ones do. The good sides to Kubota is that they are the most user friendly mowers they have a hydralulic lift for the deck, the front arm is amazingly strong has a built in jack for lifting the front of the machine for repair/ changing blades. Has a strong Kubota engine which are the best engine you can get in a mower hands down. Has wide drive tires. And overall is just built really beefy to handle the abuse people put on it I do have a older one which is really a piece of junk but I throw new guys on it to get them use to zero turns. Plus kubota's are a very expermental company and are coming out with all sorts of gizmo's for their mowers.

Last but not least Toro. Yeah it is expensive, but you get what you pay for it. Toro is like the Cadiliac of lawn mowers and very user friendly. When you want to cut at 3 inches you cut at 3 inchs. They don't use a gearbox on the deck which means less parts less hassle. In my field the parts i.e. starters, pulley's are interchangable. You can manually switch tanks but it does it automaticly when one tank is dry. They use a wider/longer frame which tend to deal with weight issues and doesn't float in swampy areas. The deck lacks a hydralulic lift but uses a foot pedel and handle to lift the deck. It also has adjustable anti scalp wheels which owning 2 of them never had a major scalping issue. They are easy to service by yourself they pretty much label every grease point/fitting on the machine for you. They aren't really all that heavy in the rear of the machine. Using drive system that stops free wheeling when on slopes. Since being in a contract with Kubota their engine life has skyrocked over the Mitsubshi engine from before. The big downside which scares alot people away is their base cost and repair costs, My guys wrecked a arbitor in the wing of the machine above 1000 bucks for the part alone.

Sry these aren't factory specs just my experince with finding Z's because everyone will try to sell you anything.

Pyro - I sent a guy out to cut a field next to a Queen of Apostles Chruch that gets done once a month. Didn't hit a thing it just couldn't handle the heat from friction. But by the worse company right now for mowers is John Deere yes believe it or not The WAM is to over powered and their out fronts are just piles of wasted metal. The only thing they do make good is a tractor. Funny story I was just using mine the other day and hit a sewer cap that I didn't see and bent the blade all to hell.

Just for a added touch when you pick what ever mower you deicide on pick up a striper kit for it. Its that little extra that makes it look ten times better.

[Steelrat]

I just can't see how the scags you have seen are dying at 3 years? Out of all the machines I looked at, it was by far the beefiest and best built. I am just nurvous about that B&S ELS that the value leader tiger cub comes with.

I really liked the ferris, and the dealer had a good price, and was willing to add a year to the warranty, as well as provide lifetime free pick-ups and drop-offs. The same dealer also sells the toros and exmarks. I'll have to price the toros, but I know they are pricier. I've read the lit on the toro, with the tapered bearings in the spindles, 7 guage deck, beefier frame, etc etc. Man, it's tought to make a decision.

EDIT: Already priced the striper kits The bad news is that toro doesn't seem to have one It'd have to be aftermarket. Ferris has a pretty cheap on that is nothing more than a flap. Scag has a beautiful set of roller wheels.

On a side note, I figured out how much mulch I needed to fill the beds that the previous owner neglected. 45 yards, ouch. At least I'm getting a good deal (for here) on the mulch, and free delivery.

[TheAngryDrunkenRussian]

Once SCAG's have a problem they will have multiple problems with the engine in the near future. We get rid of them as soon as those signs start showing there is no sense of throwing money at a machine that will break again down the road later in its life. They are beefy so they can take the punishment that the user throws on them and sends it right back at you. I'd personally wouldn't like riding on a SCAG.

How much did the dealer tell you for the Ferris?

I've seen people run these into trees and ended up walking away with whiplash at the end of the day.

What's your price per yard? I only use hemlock from Iron Mountain, MI at a $17/yard for 200 yards (YEAH i PlAy WITH SKID STEER) and of course the colored stuff on requests.