Windows Vista

[CoolHand]

Want to know why Vista sucks?

Go read this:

Clicky Here for Suckage!

It's a white paper by Peter Gutmann, and it's a very informative read, well worth the time.

[BigEvil]

Bottom line is this; that if Vista is anything that people will want then in 1-2 years after MS finishes working the major bugs out and closes all the security loopholes that it supposedly doesnt have, some 14 year old kid will figure out a crack for it.

[robnix]

Want to know why Vista sucks?

Go read this:

Clicky Here for Suckage!

It's a white paper by Peter Gutmann, and it's a very informative read, well worth the time.

Just so everyone knows what Peter Gutman's qualifications are and why he's relevant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Gutmann

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutmann_method

[calebh]

first, i gotta give props to microsoft for always pushing the technological envelope. vista will drive the next year or two of technological innovation, until the vast majority of hardware will be able to support vista. but, theres the whole thing about vista's content protection. *hint*read gutman's article.

how much of the gutman article is paranoia and how much is genuine concern, i dont know, but its still worth a look and a thought.

[robnix]

first, i gotta give props to microsoft for always pushing the technological envelope. vista will drive the next year or two of technological innovation, until the vast majority of hardware will be able to support vista. but, theres the whole thing about vista's content protection. *hint*read gutman's article.

how much of the gutman article is paranoia and how much is genuine concern, i dont know, but its still worth a look and a thought.

Microsoft isn't pushing anything. Outside of DX10 here's nothing in Vista that isn't available in other operating systems already, and even DX10 has a competitor in OpenGL. Take some time to google 'Microsoft and Innovation'.

[calebh]

Microsoft isn't pushing anything. Outside of DX10 here's nothing in Vista that isn't available in other operating systems already, and even DX10 has a competitor in OpenGL. Take some time to google 'Microsoft and Innovation'.

thats not what im talking about. the complexity of vista causes it to run sluggishly on most computers now, if at all. but it will be popular, simply because its microsoft, and that will push tech companies to market products that can run vista more efficiently. same thing happened with xp. when it was first released, it required an absurd amount of system ram for the average user for that time to run at a decent speed. 256 mb ddr, anyone? now you can get that much on a vid card for under $100. vista runs slow now, but its popularity will drive innovation until technology catches up to the point at which vista runs wihtout a hitch. then games will continue that push, at a slightly slower pace. its a not so vicious cycle. software pushes tech innovation, tech innovation allows more complex sotware, more complex software pushes tech innovation, tech... get the idea?

the thing im worried about is vista's content protection. theres a possibility that its genuineness issues will actually slow innovation or simply make it too costly.

[CoolHand]

. . . . how much of the gutman article is paranoia and how much is genuine concern, i dont know, but its still worth a look and a thought.

He is a little paranoid, but show me a security man who isn't and I'll show you a man who's bad at his job.

Besides, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't actually after you.

[robnix]

thats not what im talking about. the complexity of vista causes it to run sluggishly on most computers now, if at all. but it will be popular, simply because its microsoft, and that will push tech companies to market products that can run vista more efficiently. same thing happened with xp. when it was first released, it required an absurd amount of system ram for the average user for that time to run at a decent speed. 256 mb ddr, anyone? now you can get that much on a vid card for under $100. vista runs slow now, but its popularity will drive innovation until technology catches up to the point at which vista runs wihtout a hitch. then games will continue that push, at a slightly slower pace. its a not so vicious cycle. software pushes tech innovation, tech innovation allows more complex sotware, more complex software pushes tech innovation, tech... get the idea?

the thing im worried about is vista's content protection. theres a possibility that its genuineness issues will actually slow innovation or simply make it too costly.

New and improved hardware isn't always necessary for better software. Here's two examples:

Compiz/Beryl - Desktop effects the make Aero look pedestrian with much lower hardware requirements. Recommended requirements are a 1ghz/512MB machine with Nvidia or Intel 9xx graphics. Aero recommends 2.8ghz/1-2GB with DX9 capable graphics.

Rockbox - Alternative software for your iPod, iriver, or archos device. Apple claimed that the iPod couldn't play ogg or flac files, the rockbox developers proved them wrong. Install rockbox and you can play just about any music format under the sun.I can even play Doom on my iriver H320.

Now with Vista you have the tail wagging the dog. New software that forces the consumer to upgrade their hardware in order to take full advantage of it. Their performance meter that sets your desktop effects is a perfect example of this. It uses the lowest hardware rating as the bar for the desktop effects ignoring the other scores. The first install I did was on a computer with a 20GB 7200rpm ATA-66 drive. You'd think that this would be fine, the drive had decent transfer speed, and plenty of room left over after the install, but my drive got a low rating, which was what was used to determine the eye candy I got to see. The fact the my desktop has a 2.2 Ghz Opteron, 2GB RAM, and a GeForce 7900GT was irrelevant. My hard drive determined whether or not I got to see the transparency effects...go figure.

The only thing Vista is driving is planned obsolescence. It's no different than new milling and firing modes you'll never legally use.

[calebh]

New and improved hardware isn't always necessary for better software. Here's two examples:

Compiz/Beryl - Desktop effects the make Aero look pedestrian with much lower hardware requirements. Recommended requirements are a 1ghz/512MB machine with Nvidia or Intel 9xx graphics. Aero recommends 2.8ghz/1-2GB with DX9 capable graphics.

Rockbox - Alternative software for your iPod, iriver, or archos device. Apple claimed that the iPod couldn't play ogg or flac files, the rockbox developers proved them wrong. Install rockbox and you can play just about any music format under the sun.I can even play Doom on my iriver H320.

Now with Vista you have the tail wagging the dog. New software that forces the consumer to upgrade their hardware in order to take full advantage of it. Their performance meter that sets your desktop effects is a perfect example of this. It uses the lowest hardware rating as the bar for the desktop effects ignoring the other scores. The first install I did was on a computer with a 20GB 7200rpm ATA-66 drive. You'd think that this would be fine, the drive had decent transfer speed, and plenty of room left over after the install, but my drive got a low rating, which was what was used to determine the eye candy I got to see. The fact the my desktop has a 2.2 Ghz Opteron, 2GB RAM, and a GeForce 7900GT was irrelevant. My hard drive determined whether or not I got to see the transparency effects...go figure.

The only thing Vista is driving is planned obsolescence. It's no different than new milling and firing modes you'll never legally use.

i love the paintball metaphor lol. i may not agree with the idea of planned obsolescence (is that a technical term? lol), but it will push hardware development. out with the old, in with the new, right? (btw, i wont pay extra for firing modes. i have no intention of using them ever. i have no intention of supporting that part of our industry. but that's another topic for another time)

i see what you're saying about better software being available, but the simple fact is that vista wil be sold in huge numbers, simply because its a microsoft product, and that in turn will cause innovation, whether or not its a decent, efficient OS. it runs sluggishly on the average machine, so because a lot of new machines with vista will be sold over the next year, hardware will push forward to make it run well. its not so much that vista rocks (or sucks), but its the sheer number of vista and vista operating machines that will be sold. of course, this hasnt happened yet, so i may be completely wrong, but im guessing it will be similar to the launch of xp.

im not saying so much that vista itself is pushing tech innovation, but the number of vista and vista machines sold. which should turn out well for those of us that use more efficient software, unless vista's general content protection stuff stifles third party innovation, which is entirely possible...

[UTDragun]

Well one good thing that could come out of vista,

Lower prices on xp maybe even xp64 so when I reformat again between now and the next year I can do it again cheaper.

[slade]

rule of thumb, never be first to adopt a new version of windows...wait for a year for bugs to be worked out.

fixed.

[WickeDKlowN]

You won't have any choice.

There will always be cracks and workarounds for WGA or whatever they're calling it now. I've been doing it with XP for years, I've just got to the point where I'm sick of it and will spend the $150 or whatever the OEM version costs if it saves me the hassle.

[slade]

There will always be cracks and workarounds for WGA or whatever they're calling it now.

yeah. theres this new workaround, its called linux.

[tribalman]

There will always be cracks and workarounds for WGA or whatever they're calling it now. I've been doing it with XP for years, I've just got to the point where I'm sick of it and will spend the $150 or whatever the OEM version costs if it saves me the hassle.

actually, microsoft has said that they won't try and lock out the upgrade bug. you can use the upgrade disk to give a full install of vista without having to install xp or 2000 first. http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/02...rade_loophole/

makes one kinda think about getting vista, except drivers are still kinda sketchy. http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/02...igans_roll_on/

[tribalman]

/slight thread jack

as i was watching the last half hour of LOST one of those normally dumb Apple comercials came on. when ever the PC dude wanted to reply to something the apple guy said, a dude wearing a black suit and glasses kept saying "mac is.....do you want to respond? cancel or allow". i was actually rolling on the floor. my dad got it also, but not my sisters. anybody else see it? well, here's the link.

http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

it's the one labeled "Security"

"you are comming to a sad realization, cancel or allow? allow..."

/end thread jack

*edit* the Surgery one is pretty funny also.