more info on RT

[snoopay700]

Thanks for the info! I haven't cleaned out the inside, only because it hadn't been used since hte shop gave it the once-over. I'll clean it out when I replace all the rings when the parts kit comes in.

Where can I get a 'higehr pressure' regulator piston assembly? I'm guessing the one from airgun.com is the factory replacement for the original, which won't be any higher pressure?

(sorry again for mag n00b questions, and thanks for the help!!!!)

Actually, that could be why mine was leaking, i never thought about that. Anyway the one on the site works with a level 10, so it's a higher pressure one. Once you get that, which will be about 20 bucks i think (i linked it before) then you'll be all set to go.

[marked74]

Awesome! Thanks for the help everyone. Once I get the parts kit, level 10, and the regulator in (I'll go order the reg now), and get them installed, and tune the level 10 (probably have 100 more questions on that...), I'll post back with my results. I dry fired it about 20 times, and then about 7 or 8 balls into a bush in front of my house, and I fell in love with this thing. I can't wait!

BTW, for play this weekend, I'll be using either a Tippman 98 custom, or a stock Spyder. Wish me luck

[snoopay700]

Awesome! Thanks for the help everyone. Once I get the parts kit, level 10, and the regulator in (I'll go order the reg now), and get them installed, and tune the level 10 (probably have 100 more questions on that...), I'll post back with my results. I dry fired it about 20 times, and then about 7 or 8 balls into a bush in front of my house, and I fell in love with this thing. I can't wait!

BTW, for play this weekend, I'll be using either a Tippman 98 custom, or a stock Spyder. Wish me luck

Man, i love spyders, didn't have HPA for my RT and my old mag had a bolt that wouldn't work with co2 so i used my spyder at my friend's and i ended up bunkering people with way more expensive guns. It was awesome, plus i've got a soft spot for em cause it was my first paintball gun.

[marked74]

Actually, that could be why mine was leaking, i never thought about that. Anyway the one on the site works with a level 10, so it's a higher pressure one. Once you get that, which will be about 20 bucks i think (i linked it before) then you'll be all set to go.

For anyone else interested, I have confirmed from AGDs website that the regulator piston they sell, which snoopay linked to, is adjusted for the Level 10:

This part has been set to the stock higher pressure for the Level 10 bolt kit.

One of these days I'll understand what all this stuff does, and why I need a higher pressure regulator piston with the bolt change...

[marked74]

Man, i love spyders, didn't have HPA for my RT and my old mag had a bolt that wouldn't work with co2 so i used my spyder at my friend's and i ended up bunkering people with way more expensive guns. It was awesome, plus i've got a soft spot for em cause it was my first paintball gun.

I fired this particular Spyder at our testing area. It's got decent velocity, accuracy seemed ok, but it's LOUD. Way louder than any other gun that anyone had there that day. Guns ranged from this spyder to customized Tippman 98s to BT-5s (I think that's what they're called) to Angels and probably an Ego. Everyone knew exactly where the guy with the Spyder was Should be easy to mod though huh?

[snoopay700]

For anyone else interested, I have confirmed from AGDs website that the regulator piston they sell, which snoopay linked to, is adjusted for the Level 10:

This part has been set to the stock higher pressure for the Level 10 bolt kit.

One of these days I'll understand what all this stuff does, and why I need a higher pressure regulator piston with the bolt change...

The bolt slowly leaks air for the first half of it's travel, and then it acts like a normal mag bolt. This allows it to stop on any obstruction as well as making you have to have your velocity adjuster in more, raising the pressure in the dump chamber. This higher pressure can be too much for the piston tuned for the pressures used for a level 7 bolt, so it can leak, as the regulator piston is set to let off pressure when the pressure is too great so you can't shoot at dangerous levels.

As for modding a spyder, i'm trying to get access to a mill so i can make mine top cocking because i got bored and cut off the back, and now i need to polish it. It's my project gun, since it was only $60

[athomas]

The bolt slowly leaks air for the first half of it's travel, and then it acts like a normal mag bolt. This allows it to stop on any obstruction as well as making you have to have your velocity adjuster in more, raising the pressure in the dump chamber. This higher pressure can be too much for the piston tuned for the pressures used for a level 7 bolt, so it can leak, as the regulator piston is set to let off pressure when the pressure is too great so you can't shoot at dangerous levels.

Close.

The amount of force the bolt exerts on anything in the breach is directly related to the pressure in the chamber and the diameter of the bolt stem. Since the starting diameter of the bolt stem is smaller than the level 7 bolt stem the resulting force is also lower. As soon as the small part of the bolt stem releases from the seal, the larger part of the stem becomes active so the bolt has a higher forward force and can maintain a high enough cycle speed. A side effect of having a smaller starting stem is that the opening it seals is also smaller which results in less air flow at the same pressure. To compensate for the reduced flow, you need a higher pressure. Thus, the level 10 setups operate at a higher chamber pressure. The smaller starting diameter of the bolt stem still results in lower impact force even at a higher chamber pressure.

[snoopay700]

Close.

The amount of force the bolt exerts on anything in the breach is directly related to the pressure in the chamber and the diameter of the bolt stem. Since the starting diameter of the bolt stem is smaller than the level 7 bolt stem the resulting force is also lower. As soon as the small part of the bolt stem releases from the seal, the larger part of the stem becomes active so the bolt has a higher forward force and can maintain a high enough cycle speed. A side effect of having a smaller starting stem is that the opening it seals is also smaller which results in less air flow at the same pressure. To compensate for the reduced flow, you need a higher pressure. Thus, the level 10 setups operate at a higher chamber pressure. The smaller starting diameter of the bolt stem still results in lower impact force even at a higher chamber pressure.

I feel stupid, i should have realized that, all this time i figured it was the hole making you need a higher pressure. Gah, second flub with this kind of stuff in a few days.

[athomas]

I feel stupid, i should have realized that, all this time i figured it was the hole making you need a higher pressure. Gah, second flub with this kind of stuff in a few days.

Its a common misconception that alot of people make. The vent action just happens too slow in the whole scheme of things, to have that kind of affect. I suspect it does affect the operation if the setup is not done right, which is why you sometimes get a chuff during high rates of fire if the marker has a tiny bit of bolt stick. The bolt stick slows down the forward action such that some air vents out of the chamber before the small stem leaves the oring. Once enough of the air is removed, the pressure drops below the value needed to push the bolt forward and you get a chuff and the bolt resets.

[marked74]

Wow - thanks for all the info! Simple system, few moving parts, pretty basic physics. And yet it always sounds complicated, at least to me. If I could see inside the marker when it was firing, and see exactly where pressure changes and things were happening, it would make more sense. That's just how my brain works - I need to see things happening to 'get' it.

[211]

Level 10 is great
but I dont recomend sticking your head in there

[trevorjk]

Level 10 is great
but I dont recomend sticking your head in there

why not, Tom Kaye put his tongue in there

[snoopay700]

why not, Tom Kaye put his tongue in there

My policy is when he tests it on his little guy i'll trust it with my finger

[marked74]

Fedex tracking says my shipment from Action Village was delivered today. Tonight I should be able to get started on the level 10 upgrade. I won't be able to button it all back up and test until I get my AGD order in that has the regulator piston, but I can at least get started.

[Beemer]

More info on RT

Wow - thanks for all the info! Simple system, few moving parts, pretty basic physics. And yet it always sounds complicated, at least to me. If I could see inside the marker when it was firing, and see exactly where pressure changes and things were happening, it would make more sense. That's just how my brain works - I need to see things happening to 'get' it.

Here is some more for you.


http://home.comcast.net/~beemer2/RT.avi Animation 9meg.

http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/downloads/retroexploded1.pdf

http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/Images/rtmanual.pdf