One for the Pros to venture forth on. XMT Body not getting into the rhythm.

[XtraKargo]

You're positive it was the good pin and on/off assembly? Yes sir, was working well in the marker I had assembled for the Retro Valve.

If so:

1. Do the same tests but with the Reactor on/off that you had in your Classic valve.Lights out for the wee ones, so this test will need to be done tomorrow. Will post up my findings

2. I know you slip fit the bolt to make sure there were no burrs, but try assembling the marker with the muzzle pointed up and without a bolt spring. When snugly assembled, tip the marker muzzle down. Does the bolt fall forward? May need to take out the bolt stem oring, so you don't get a false result from oring friction. This sounds interesting, and quiet. I will get started on this.

Thanks, again. May not hear back from me tonight, but I will let you know my findings.

[XtraKargo]

2. I know you slip fit the bolt to make sure there were no burrs, but try assembling the marker with the muzzle pointed up and without a bolt spring. When snugly assembled, tip the marker muzzle down. Does the bolt fall forward? May need to take out the bolt stem oring, so you don't get a false result from oring friction.

Yes it drops. No Spring, No O-Ring. X-Valve LVL10. Leaks air like an SOB thou....

[XtraKargo]

Now on to the Reactor On/Off.

Classic Valve - LVL7 - Cycles just fine.

X-Valve - LVL10 - Cycles fine but doesn't seem as quick as the Classic to me. I am not sure how it would try and recharge a straight pin - and may need more education on this fact.

Retro Valve - LVL7 - Fired once - then the concave portion of the pin got lodged in the teflon o-ring in between the On/Off top and bottom and would not drop until I remove the valve... I was fairly certain that was used for a finger grip, and it was supposed to be facing out.

Again, XMT Body-Minimag Rail - standard sear.

[XtraKargo]

New Results.

Thanks for looking.

[nak81783]

Now on to the Reactor On/Off.

Classic Valve - LVL7 - Cycles just fine.

X-Valve - LVL10 - Cycles fine but doesn't seem as quick as the Classic to me. I am not sure how it would try and recharge a straight pin - and may need more education on this fact.

Retro Valve - LVL7 - Fired once - then the concave portion of the pin got lodged in the teflon o-ring in between the On/Off top and bottom and would not drop until I remove the valve... I was fairly certain that was used for a finger grip, and it was supposed to be facing out.

Again, XMT Body-Minimag Rail - standard sear.

Could you repeat this with the Reactor pin the proper way, please? Want to make sure we have clean data.

[XtraKargo]

The Retro Valve gives a firm trigger now but no shots fired. The pin is not getting caught now. (For a test I reversed the pin and it fires sporadically- but the bolt moves fine, so I put it back correctly with a urethane O ring instead of the Teflon to test, giving the firm trigger)

The Retro has a single O ring for the top of the on/off. The Classic and X have an inner and outer. If that makes a difference.

[nak81783]

Running out of ideas. But one more thing to try for now. Wear adequate personal protection equipment.

Using X-Valve, Level 10 (make sure pressure is turned up high enough to make it work), good RT on/off assembly and pin, Minimag rail, and standard sear, put the marker together and air up. Unscrew both field strip screws 1/8 turn. Grasp the body firmly with one hand while holding firmly onto the grip frame with the other hand. While repeatedly pulling the trigger, rock the body in multiple directions and rotations. Use some force, but you're not looking to rip the body off the rail. Report what happens.

Unscrew both screws another 1/8 turn. Report what happens.

Repeat until the screws are, at most (in my opinion), 1/2 turn from how you had it originally snugly assembled.

I'm thinking a total of 1/2 turn will be enough to loosen things up but not let things come apart. Feel this out. The decision on how far to go is yours.

All I can think of is there is some interaction with the XMT body and the difference between the on/off bottom (RT vs. Classic) that is causing the binding. RT on/off bottom is radiused to match the diameter of the valve in that area. Classic on/off bottom is flat (assuming Reactor on/off is the same).

I know this was touched upon at the beginning of the thread, but I'm hoping the contorting of the body while repeatedly pulling the trigger will let you deduce where the binding is occurring. Also, by how far you have to unthread the screws and force the body, it will give a general indication of how bad the binding is.

Good luck.

[OPBN]

Have to admit, I haven't a clue at this point. (not that I did to begin with) Just not sure how the on/off could be the issue unless it has something to do, as suggested earlier, with pin length. Maybe worth seeing if XMT or BE would be willing to take a look at it to see what the deal is.

[XtraKargo]

Running out of ideas. But one more thing to try for now. Wear adequate personal protection equipment.

Using X-Valve, Level 10 (make sure pressure is turned up high enough to make it work), good RT on/off assembly and pin, Minimag rail, and standard sear, put the marker together and air up. Unscrew both field strip screws 1/8 turn. Grasp the body firmly with one hand while holding firmly onto the grip frame with the other hand. While repeatedly pulling the trigger, rock the body in multiple directions and rotations. Use some force, but you're not looking to rip the body off the rail. Report what happens.

Unscrew both screws another 1/8 turn. Report what happens.

Repeat until the screws are, at most (in my opinion), 1/2 turn from how you had it originally snugly assembled.

I'm thinking a total of 1/2 turn will be enough to loosen things up but not let things come apart. Feel this out. The decision on how far to go is yours.

All I can think of is there is some interaction with the XMT body and the difference between the on/off bottom (RT vs. Classic) that is causing the binding. RT on/off bottom is radiused to match the diameter of the valve in that area. Classic on/off bottom is flat (assuming Reactor on/off is the same).

I know this was touched upon at the beginning of the thread, but I'm hoping the contorting of the body while repeatedly pulling the trigger will let you deduce where the binding is occurring. Also, by how far you have to unthread the screws and force the body, it will give a general indication of how bad the binding is.

Good luck.

So to confirm my findings (or lack there of) I took the XValve and tuned it in the Minimag, as if it were stock, and got it firing without leaks with the good on/off. removed Minimag body, set the XMT Body. Fired a single shot. froze with trigger pressure, began S L O W L Y backing out the two screws once I reached a full half turn out, and trying to move the valve or the body, with no result I degassed, pulled the trigger, the pin released, confirmed the play in the body and the valve. Gassed it back up, and it still did not fire. Nothing was removed completely, only the two screws were loosened, and the trigger was firm again.

I am stumped yet again...

edit: I know sometimes when there is a LVL 10 issue there has been requests to poke the bolt with a squeegee - made no difference. I just remembered doing this also during the loose body test.

[Ando]

I'll try my Mag-Fu skills.

Main problem is the xvalve not working in the XMT body right?

And your using a pneumatic frame?

[XtraKargo]

Originally yes, but to isolate if there was any issues with pneu setup we moved the XMT and the XValve to Minimag Rail and a standard sear.

[nak81783]

Cover the sear portion that engages the on/off pin with permanent marker. Pull the trigger a few dozen time with the marker aired up. Take a picture of the sear. Hopefully there will be witness marks of where the contact is taking place.

Repeat ceteris paribus, except use Reactor on/off assembly.

Post both pics.

[XtraKargo]

Cover the sear portion that engages the on/off pin with permanent marker. Pull the trigger a few dozen time with the marker aired up. Take a picture of the sear. Hopefully there will be witness marks of where the contact is taking place.

Repeat ceteris paribus, except use Reactor on/off assembly.

Post both pics.

You asked earlier about the Reactor and if it was flat. Here are some pics of it as well.





RT on off - in the X-Valve. Didn't fire a shot. Trigger firm.



Reactor on off in the x - cycled fine.

[nak81783]

Take a dremel or file and open up the width of the slot on the BAD RT on/off bottom equal distances in both directions from center. I figure this one is already chewed up a little, so you might be willing to modify this one. If you are able, make it about the size of the round partial hole that the back of the sear comes up through in the rail. If it's already that width, open it up about .030" in both directions. You may need to go further later.

Reinstall with good pin.

Try again.

If you want to get an explanation first, please post pics of all three on/offs, side by side, with them all sitting on a flat surface on their tops, without the top orings. Orient the RT on/offs such that the picture can view the width of the slot on the RT on/off bottoms.

Or black marker the edges of the slot and some of the bottom around the slot on the bottom of the RT on/off. Repeat the trigger pull exercise. See if you see witness marks on the on/off bottom.

[XtraKargo]

If you want to get an explanation first, please post pics of all three on/offs, side by side, with them all sitting on a flat surface on their tops, without the top orings. Orient the RT on/offs such that the picture can view the width of the slot on the RT on/off bottoms.

Yes, please.