tired of trying, want references

[gretch6364]

all my rt classics will give a 2 or 3 round burst on 850 but that is all. with a 1200 psi it rt's like mad and is hard to control. i'm going to have to get a regulator that is somewhere inbetween the 2.

I DO NOT want shot burst or full auto and I don't want heavy trigger bounce. One shot, one pull. What happen to the days of trigger skills? Did PSP mode and ramping kill it? Can people with mags only keep up by going full auto and pumping high pressure into these guns? Good back guys used to be able to lay down a **** ton of paint in semi-only and an RT could keep up with all the angels, etc. with the right trigger man.

That is all I want out of this gun. Bouncing a trigger is not playing paintball in my mind. Is it even allowed in tournaments? It is so easy to shoot a non-bouncing RT at 10 or 12 BPS...with no bouncing...what more could one need?

[blackdeath1k]

depends on what you want. if should work just fine with a standard high pressure output tank regulator (which is about 850 psi). you can get a tank with a ninja regulator, and just toss an extra red shim in for higher output pressure (950 or so) if you want a stronger rt effect. the shp is only if you want like 20 bps rt. seems wasteful, if not totally overkill to me.

Kinda what I thought with wasteful. And expensive. I'm set at 950 output and totally controllable. I vertually never run auto off of trigger bounce. I easily could. But I prefer to just use the bounce to speed up my trigger pull faster than that of a classic valve.

Kinda shocked with hearing anyone claim they could actually play games with a 650 input though.

[gretch6364]

Kinda shocked with hearing anyone claim they could actually play games with a 650 input though.

I ran a max flow into a stock classic RT with level 7 bolt in like 1999 at 680 and pulled 16 SPS over a counter at the IAO. Played many tournaments with that setup. Just had a benchmark double trigger frame I modded with stops, trigger shoe, and shims.

[athomas]

The level 7 bolt requires about 350psi to operate at 280fps with an efficient barrel and slightly more to operate with a heavily ported barrel. The level 10 with a stiff spring can operate at about 500psi or more. A level 10 mag with lots of porting could require 550 psi which would require at least 750psi from the tank as a minimum to keep up at a high rate of fire. If you add any other obstructions in the air path such as kinks in the air line or on-offs that are too tight, or have a regulator that doesn't have super high air flow, you can still starve the valve at 750psi when firing at high rates of fire. By having more air pressure available, it offsets some of the flow restrictions caused by obstructions in the air path. A higher input pressure gives the mag what it needs to recharge really fast to reduce shootdown and give the reputation of being one of the real fastest markers on the field. Yes, the mag can operate at a lower pressure, but that would slow it down and make it like any other gun with a regulator on it. It has been observed that pressures above 800psi, and more towards 850psi, make the mag operate better. Once you get above that threshold, it becomes more reactive so people use it for additional kick on the trigger.

[Runamok]

Gentlemen!!! Shall we get back to assisting with the RT fix and argue input pressures later? Yes the sear and bolt are ATE UP. they must be replaced. Between a lv 7 and lv 10 is a choice I'd leave to a later date, lets get it working first. Misho needs a working Mag first and to learn trigger control befor we turn a full auto RT loose on his local field. Since lv 7's are easy to come by I'd say go that way and upgrade later if you feel the need. If you take some dish soap and cut it slightly with water it will give you a good leak detector. just apply a small amount to the recommended area, a ton of bubbles will show you where a leak is. New bolt ,new sear, and new spring may well cure the problem. Misho, ,the advice you've received will cure the issues your haveing because there's really not much else that could be the cause of your leaks. So get the wore out parts replaced ,oil the living snot out of it and let us know how it worked out. If you can keep us on topic we can and will help you. In the end you'll love your Mag as nuch as we love ours. (All 17 of them in my case and yes one is a classic RT). Lord and I thought I was ADHD.

[Mishotaki]

i'm with athomas and fish; the bolt and possibly sear look pretty beat up. is that a chip on the top of the sear? and the sear rod length looks too long; there should be a small gap between the back of the trigger and the rod when the marker is gassed up. do you have a pair of calipers to measure the length?

just curious, but what is the tank regulator's output pressure, do you know?

I didn't know where you wanted the measurement, so i took all i could think:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/Mishotaki/Automag/IMG_02831_zps23fad6f8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/Mishotaki/Automag/IMG_02841_zpsca693f55.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/Mishotaki/Automag/IMG_02851_zps67ce9128.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/Mishotaki/Automag/IMG_02861_zps4cfe234a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/Mishotaki/Automag/IMG_02871_zps9c8b9b57.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/Mishotaki/Automag/IMG_02881_zps363a7ca4.jpg

my tank output is just regular high pressure.. should be around 850... I don't see any difference from my steel 48/3000 to my 68/4500 with the amount of RT...

The sear is definitely chipped so you need to replace both the sear and bolt. The sear looks like one of the old carbide tipped ones. They were hard to prevent wear, but brittle. Check the on-off length to make sure it is not too short which might have contributed to the chipping. The length of the on-off should be 0.750"

sadly, i didn't get that before going to work, i'll try to get that measurement monday...

Gentlemen!!! Shall we get back to assisting with the RT fix and argue input pressures later? Yes the sear and bolt are ATE UP. they must be replaced. Between a lv 7 and lv 10 is a choice I'd leave to a later date, lets get it working first. Misho needs a working Mag first and to learn trigger control befor we turn a full auto RT loose on his local field. Since lv 7's are easy to come by I'd say go that way and upgrade later if you feel the need. If you take some dish soap and cut it slightly with water it will give you a good leak detector. just apply a small amount to the recommended area, a ton of bubbles will show you where a leak is. New bolt ,new sear, and new spring may well cure the problem. Misho, ,the advice you've received will cure the issues your haveing because there's really not much else that could be the cause of your leaks. So get the wore out parts replaced ,oil the living snot out of it and let us know how it worked out. If you can keep us on topic we can and will help you. In the end you'll love your Mag as nuch as we love ours. (All 17 of them in my case and yes one is a classic RT). Lord and I thought I was ADHD.

oh! didn't of using soap and water! cool way to diagnose that!
here comes the stupid question: why not submerge it in water? don't i remember Tom Kaye saying that all you needed to do was to air it up and you could dunk it in water and it wouldn't cause any problem? I might not remember it correctly...

well i do remember Borg's video where he cleans his A-5 with a heavy stream of water ^_^

edit: so.. got some soap on my valve... put it back in the gun... air it up with the last of my air... AND REFUSES TO LEAK!!! so.. i'm pretty much going to spend the money to get a lvl 10 and a sear... probably another AGD rebuild kit in case something needs to be replaced ... and we'll see where it goes from there

[Runamok]

Replace the sear and bolt. I've a feeling that your problems will be gone. the on/off pin length can be addressed later. your main problem right now is w wore out sear and bolt. Somewhere you had a pic of the on/off assem. and the pin is the thing that goes through the body of the on/off, the thing that got stuck in the o rings in the first place, Oh how do I describe it? Do not disrepair! Your RT will live. You need to learn the language of Mags. It's confusing at 1st but you'll get it. Way simpler then timing a cocker. Believe me I've had both and love the Mag's best.

[Mishotaki]

Replace the sear and bolt. I've a feeling that your problems will be gone. the on/off pin length can be addressed later. your main problem right now is w wore out sear and bolt. Somewhere you had a pic of the on/off assem. and the pin is the thing that goes through the body of the on/off, the thing that got stuck in the o rings in the first place, Oh how do I describe it? Do not disrepair! Your RT will live. You need to learn the language of Mags. It's confusing at 1st but you'll get it. Way simpler then timing a cocker. Believe me I've had both and love the Mag's best.

don't worry, i totally know what the on/off pin is.. i just didn't get the message to measure it before i went to work(even got there late as i took too much time to write my reply)...
I kinda understand the technological advance that the autococker did (omg it's a pump turned into a semi!), but i don't how i could love one when it's such a complicated system(so when the trigger is at this point, you want low pressure to go this way, then when it gets a little farther, you want the pressure to stop going there and go another way and...), but I wouldn't mind trying out a sniper, just to get the feel of the pump and see how it goes... as I also love playing pump/pistol (PGP/phantom/the DSG that hates me/hammer 7 with ****ty mags/tiberius 8.1) it's in my interests... i just don't get the pump mags yet...

the automag is just sexy to me... the classic look and awesome design made me totally fall for it, and cockerpunk's advice in automag's buying upgrading and shooting tips made me totally salivate for one ^_^

[Runamok]

Good. basic understanding. sometimes you can't help until the student learns what's what. You say "Banjo Bolt" and they think something has fallen off a stringed instrument. I was going to suggest the old bathtub leak detection system, but some guys here get real distracted and loose site of the stainless and alum. construction. I used to clean mine with a water hose. It'll get you back on the field but you still need to take your mag apart at the end of the day and dry everything then oil it up again.
Now if you think of a cocker as a pump turned semi. A pumpmag is a semi turned pump. A wondreful little beastie called a wave spring,stops the bolt from re engaging sear yet allows the bolt spring to keep the bolt sealing the powertube. I don't recall who said it but it went sorta like,"If you break your pumpmag it turns back into a semi". Well keep us updated on the progress of the re build.

[Mishotaki]

so... i got my parts today.,...
installed the new sear, it looks taller than the one before:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ps14ea3068.jpg

tried shooting the damned thing after installing the lvl 10 kit... i can get it to leak... or not... BUT IT REFUSES TO SHOOT!!!!!!
i have pressure going into the on/off, but pushing the trigger will not fire the gun, frikking weird, i even got it to refuse to degas the gun after removing the banjo bolt (scariest thing to me, had to remove the regulator nut to be able to remove the valve because the on/off would still be reactive and would block me from removing it)

i don't get it... is it because of the shims? am i doing something wrong?
so.. in the powertube: the delrin washer, then the carrier with the oring facing down, the shims (tried with 2 or none), then the powertube nut...

i tried with the 3 different springs.... i am totally bummed... help?
also tried with the 3 different carrier orings, used the one with the least resistance when on the bolt, but they all have quite a lot there...

edit: tried the bigger carrier, it does leak down the barrel... but i can get the gun to RT! it doesn't frikking shoot, but it RTs!

[BigEvil]

Tuen the velocity up. It takes more pressure to fire the lvl 10

[Mishotaki]

Tuen the velocity up. It takes more pressure to fire the lvl 10

YES!
i had to get it up way higher than before.. and it fired!

now.. i got to stop the pin from the sear from backing up from shooting.... and i can't find my damned teflon tape anywhere...

[athomas]

I think the sear appears taller because the cut is slightly different. I suspect the distance and offset from the pivot point is the same.

Go through the check list again. Plus, don't forget to remove all the shims from the powertube. Make sure you are only using one urethane oring for the on-off top. Make sure you remember to turn the velocity up.

[Mishotaki]

allright, i found my teflon tape (on a damned bookshelf out of all places!) and got the sear to have a little space before touching the trigger when aired up...

i ran out of air trying it out, it's weird that it doesn't RT anymore... like not at all, would that be caused by the lvl 10 kit or something else?

[athomas]

The Level 10 will only affect the RT effect if it causes the bolt reset to slow down due to a carrier that is too tight, or by changing bolt springs. The stiffer the spring, the higher the chamber pressure is, and there is less differential pressure between input pressure so it doesn't allow your finger to react with the trigger as much.

Sometimes, just moving things around allows a better fit, especially if an oring is brand new and just replaced.