1100 PSI into X Valve- no rapidfire?

[wjesse]

As luck would have it the double trigger arrived tonight. I fired it up and... no dice. The best I can get is a lethargic double fire. No rapid fire with or without the ULE on/off.

So far I have spent a small fortune on the x valve, tank and various parts. I am discouraged that I somehow got a dud mag. I can still have fun with it but I was hoping $500 would have gotten more than a lighter trigger pull.

Any additional advice from someone who has experience with a similar setup is much appreciated :-)

[Rambo]

Ok, two things, I think to get a fast valve recharge you need to have a good volume of air going through it. Maybe the Asa can't deliver enough at that pressure.

Second, if you're doing 1100 psi the that built in reg piston is really gonna be moving, since your velocity nut is gonna be all the way back. I was having slow recharge until I put a few drops of oil directly into that little hole the pin comes out of when you unscrew the back, then shoot it like 30 times, should speed up.

If you're getting inconsistent velocities then I'd say it's the reg, that power tube needs a certain amount of time to charge up. maybe lower pressure would actually be better because the regulator piston has to move less, I think there's a balance.

I also kinda think trying one of the heavier springs might speed things up, but I am still just figuring out how the level 10 works and tuning this puppy.

[wjesse]

Thank you for your input. I do feel like the 850 psi tank shoots smoother with the ule on/off valve installed.

I have tried three different ASA valves but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

I will try lubing the daylight out if this thing tomorrow. I haven't thought about the back of the valve yet.

Tonight I spent my time engineering a trigger guard from a proto matrix into the mag. I think it turned out pretty nice!

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[wjesse]

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[athomas]

You shouldn't need any shims installed in your level 10. If you do, then it isn't tuned correctly and will slow down your action. This drastically affects your ability to be reactive.

[Rambo]

This guy seems to be the expert in rapidfire automags, maybe you can glean some info from him. Maybe you already read his site.


http://www.zakvetter.com/pages/paintballs/automag_info/rapidfire/what_is_needed.html

I do think that it requires a pretty high output regulator to achieve the rapid recharge that is necessary, more so than a ton of pressure. But I'd exhaust all of your other options before investing in that.

Basically the increased pressure will increase the trigger pull but should also increase the recharge rate, but if your tank regulator is too slow then the recharge will be slow because your gun is kinda waiting on that pressure to return to 1100 psi or whatever before its going to allow you to fire again.

[wjesse]

Thanks. I did check out his site and tried to email him but the email kicked back.

I currently have no shims in the power tube.

I have an output gauge that reads 1100 pretty solid while I shoot. My cheap 850 reg drops noticeably so I can tell the SHP one is more solid by comparison.

The only thing left I can think of is trying to find a way I can get higher than 1100psi in there. Ninja can make a reg up to 3000 but they are not adjustable and cost $100. I thought of having them set one at 1200 for me to try but I hate to waste more money if I'm wrong.

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[Rambo]

I have kind of a vested interest in seeing your thing work because I'm going in a similar direction.

Do you think you might have a kink in your hoseline, I see it's like snaking back and forth. If the reg pressure is not dropping when you fire it then that leads me to believe the air just isn't flowin into the powertube fast enough.

I feel like you're probably doing a lot of work for this but I wonder if you could just experiment by attaching the bottle directly and bypassing that gasthru grip thing.


But yeah I also believe that reg needs to be lubed the hell out of because it won't pop your trigger back out until it moves forward and back.

[Rambo]

Yeah, the more I look at it the more I'm like, you've got 3 90 degree bends, each one is going to reduce the diameter of the hose, by the time the air gets to your gun it's prob like sub 800 psi even though your reg is telling you it's 1100.

[wjesse]

I did connect the tank directly to the valve with just the 6" line on it and the ASA. No real difference was noticed

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[Rambo]

Hmmm, dang, running out of ideas here. I guess if you've exhausted all the other possibilities, it sounds like the adjustable regs have better flow rates, you can keep the tank and just install a new reg which would be only $50-ish.

According to that guy I mentioned, these are the best regs, not sure how many they still make though:

Air America Apocalypse Regulator
Air America Armageddon Regulator
AGD Flatline Regulator (4500psi series)
CenterFlag DynaFlow Regulator
CenterFlag 4CE Preset Regulator
Nitro Duck I-Reg Preset Regulator
Smart Parts Max-Flo inline and 2nd Gen Manifold Regulator

[Nobody]

Ok, hold up. Just because a gun does something at 1 pressure doesnt mean that doubling the pressure would get you better results.

You do not need any more pressure than you already have. Hell, i can get reactiveness off 800psi. I am of the minority that is against 4 digit pressures into the gun.

Now, look at what you have & compare it what other people are using when getting near runaway triggers. The CF frame can flex more in the trigger which could be absording some of the bounce. You could also have, no offense fat fingers. Trigger hygiene is very important for this. You do need to hold it a certain way. I know that is what i need to do with my m90 frame and Emag. I don't know.

So, stop buying this and that and do small incremental changes. Get the gun shooting reliably, then start messing with it. Hell, for all you know, you could have a bad valve that just won't do that.

[Rambo]

Yeah, seems like you could just find somebody on the paintball field with a pimped out tank and ask them if you could try a couple of shots through it before spending more money.

[sjrtk]

Like Nobody said relax with everything your trying. Run a piece of macro line from the ASA straight to the valve. Running a shorter on/off pin speeds the RT effect up. Running 1k+ line pressure to the valve seems to be a waste of time to me. I have massive RT effect from ALL of my RT valves at 850 PSI straight to the valves running a 712 Emag pin and intelliframes or my logic UMF. All together I have $4 tied up in each valve I want to RT.

[wjesse]

I have run the line directly into the valve from the ASA with no change.

Right now I am waiting for a new trigger sear to arrive since mine is the old style that is triangle shaped from the 90's. I'm hoping that might help.

It's not that I don't have a reactive trigger- it pushes back. Just not enough to make it fire again.

If the sear doesn't help then I am probably going to give up on rapid fire and settle for a sear mod from Luke's Customs paired with the ULE trigger.

I think I have exhausted every other avenue I can imagine besides investing in another higher pressure tank.

My ultimate goal is to get this all tuned in by the 24 hours game at KC Crusaders in late August.