** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[athomas]

is it unusual to switch to the smallest carrier? By smallest i mean the smallest carrier you are given.

Also can you outshoot the mag? I had some paintballs get shot so fast that i had some kind of drop out. I broke some paint but looked in the breech and nothing. In fact the barrel was clean up until the tip.

So those are some questions i wanted cleared up. Also i'm not sure if my level 10 is tuned right still. I've tried the paper trick and the paintball on tape trick but none proved my theory.

The only reason im on the smallest is because after i shot a hopper or so through my tac-one the gun started slightly leaking from the barrel.

(this tac one is fairly new. only 2 cases through it)

If the valve develops a leak out the front and removing a shim doesn't help, then definately drop a carrier size. You should be fine. If you start getting bolt stick, change orings and retune.

If your mag is working properly, you can't outshoot it. Your fingers aren't fast enough. If you get a ball barely rolling out the barrel, then you have some part of the cycle that did not function properly. Also, your detents could be allowing paint to roll farther down you barrel so that it doesn't accelerate properly.

Broken paint in the barrel but not in the breach or feed tube is generally one of two things. It could be bad paint or your barrel is too tight for the paint you are using.

If you want to get a feel for how hard the bolt is hitting, put a squeegie against the bolt face and fire the gun.

[phatty123]

Level X questions

I have a Level X on my retro valved minimag. I was using the smallest spring, but was getting some chops. I only had the short spring in because if my fields velocity limits, but I found out that the middle spring could probably get low enough. Well I put the middle spring on an made no change in my velocity adjustment. When I went to go test it I had alot of chuffs and balls rolling out the barrel and one break. Then I cleaned up my mag and turned the velocity up a little and it seemed to greatly help the chuffing. I had a little still so maybe I need to turn it up more? I have no chronograph so I have no idea how fast its going. Is this normal. Was the chuffing just me needing to turn up the velocity after spring install?


_barry

[athomas]

I have a Level X on my retro valved minimag. I was using the smallest spring, but was getting some chops. I only had the short spring in because if my fields velocity limits, but I found out that the middle spring could probably get low enough. Well I put the middle spring on an made no change in my velocity adjustment. When I went to go test it I had alot of chuffs and balls rolling out the barrel and one break. Then I cleaned up my mag and turned the velocity up a little and it seemed to greatly help the chuffing. I had a little still so maybe I need to turn it up more? I have no chronograph so I have no idea how fast its going. Is this normal. Was the chuffing just me needing to turn up the velocity after spring install?


_barry

When you install the longer, stiffer spring, you need to increase the velocity setting to maintain consistent operation. Unfortunately, that will probably increase the minimum velocity that your gun will shoot reliably at. If you have a low field limit, the middle spring may not allow you to shoot in the range that you want. For operational consistency, you should be shooting at about 20fps above the lowest velocity that the gun will shoot at. So, start low and gradually increase the velocity until the gun shoots. Measure the velocity. This value should be about 20fps below the value that you want to shoot at. If this value is less than 20fps below the desired velocity, then your gun won't shoot reliably at that velocity and you should use the next shorter spring.

If your gun does operate reliably at the desired velocity setting with the middle spring, then use it.

Are you getting chops or barrel breaks? If a ball is too big for the barrel, it can cause breaks during firing.

[phatty123]

Well I went and chroned my marker today with the middle spring in. I was shooting about 320-330. I turned it down till i was shooting at about 280-285 fps. The problem that the first time i pul thr trigger is a chuff or the ball falls out the end of the barrel. All other shots are perfecrt. Then I stop shooting for a sec then pull the trigger and it chuffs/loads a ball then the second pull fires it. The velocity should be high enough for it not to chuff and why only on the 1st trigger pull? I broke a few balls as well, but that could of been the fact they are a month or so old and also it was very cold. It was about 30-35 degrees at the paintball field. I dont think that is causing the chuffing since I'm using compressed air, but who knows. Well I would appreciate the help. It wasn't ever chuffing with the gold spring, but it chuffs the 1st shot and is shooting into the 280's with the red spring.


Thanks,
Barry

[athomas]

Well I went and chroned my marker today with the middle spring in. I was shooting about 320-330. I turned it down till i was shooting at about 280-285 fps. The problem that the first time i pul thr trigger is a chuff or the ball falls out the end of the barrel. All other shots are perfecrt. Then I stop shooting for a sec then pull the trigger and it chuffs/loads a ball then the second pull fires it. The velocity should be high enough for it not to chuff and why only on the 1st trigger pull? I broke a few balls as well, but that could of been the fact they are a month or so old and also it was very cold. It was about 30-35 degrees at the paintball field. I dont think that is causing the chuffing since I'm using compressed air, but who knows. Well I would appreciate the help. It wasn't ever chuffing with the gold spring, but it chuffs the 1st shot and is shooting into the 280's with the red spring.


Thanks,
Barry

What is the lowest velocity the gun will cycle at? Find that value and set the velocity 20 fps higher. This will be the lowest velocity setting to use. If it is too high, then you need to go to a shorter, lighter spring.

A first shot chuff is usually an indication of a carrier that is too tight, but if you are shooting close to the minimum operating velocity with a new oring that is not broken in, that could also affect it. Once the bolt moves in the oring, all subsequent shots within a short time span will fire consistently. Its only after the bolt sits still for a while that it sticks to the bolt stem and requires a bit more force to break the bond. That is where the 20fps rule comes into play. If the powertube carrier is properly tuned for the oring in it, 20fps (higher forward force) will always break the bond between the oring and the bolt stem.

If you are getting broken balls with a spring that barely allows the gun to fire, then the problem lies with the balls and/or barrel.

[phatty123]

I that I have the number 1 carrier in there. Imoved down from the 1.5 because it started to leak. I will go back and check it when I get back to work on friday. Since I want to try playing if it isnt to cold.


_barry

[athomas]

I that I have the number 1 carrier in there. Imoved down from the 1.5 because it started to leak. I will go back and check it when I get back to work on friday. Since I want to try playing if it isnt to cold.


_barry

Remove all poweretube shims while checking for the proper carrier. If the 1.5 carrier leaks with all shims removed then the 1.0 carrier is the proper one.

[phatty123]

I have been fooling arounf with this for some time. I had my level 10 working pretty good for awhile, then it started to leak. Well then I moved down a carrier. I started with the 1.5and gold spring then went down to the 1 with the gold spring. Again it functioned fine. Then the other day I wanted to try to put the middle spring in. Didnt work at all no matter how much I turned the velocity up it didnt fire correctly. Chuffs and broken balls. I put shims in then took them out changed oring and carrier sizes. I tried the oring that was working great in the 1 carrier and put it in the 1.5 and like originally with the gold spring it leaks. Back down to the 1.0 and it doesn't leak, but it doesn't even fire no matter what the velocity is set at. So i gave up and went back to the gold spring with the 1.0 carrier and the oring that is borken in. It doesn't leak, but chuffs on the 1st pull still. Then fires fine. Then if you let it sit for a few seconds it chuffs on the 1st pull again. This was killing me while i was playing today. I never got the "first shot" off. It would just chuff then reset the trigger then it would fire. I pretty much tired of this. What do I do now? I have a retro valve and 1200psi coming into my mag. It chuffs with balls or with out. I'm about to send this back to AGD. Its killing me. I have a warp feed and all balls are being chambered correctly.

edit... when it chuffs and it loaded the ball just rolls out the end of the barrel. Also this problem is occuring at 280 fps, so I do not believe velocity is the problem.


_barry

[athomas]

I have been fooling arounf with this for some time. I had my level 10 working pretty good for awhile, then it started to leak. Well then I moved down a carrier. I started with the 1.5and gold spring then went down to the 1 with the gold spring. Again it functioned fine. Then the other day I wanted to try to put the middle spring in. Didnt work at all no matter how much I turned the velocity up it didnt fire correctly. Chuffs and broken balls. I put shims in then took them out changed oring and carrier sizes. I tried the oring that was working great in the 1 carrier and put it in the 1.5 and like originally with the gold spring it leaks. Back down to the 1.0 and it doesn't leak, but it doesn't even fire no matter what the velocity is set at. So i gave up and went back to the gold spring with the 1.0 carrier and the oring that is borken in. It doesn't leak, but chuffs on the 1st pull still. Then fires fine. Then if you let it sit for a few seconds it chuffs on the 1st pull again. This was killing me while i was playing today. I never got the "first shot" off. It would just chuff then reset the trigger then it would fire. I pretty much tired of this. What do I do now? I have a retro valve and 1200psi coming into my mag. It chuffs with balls or with out. I'm about to send this back to AGD. Its killing me. I have a warp feed and all balls are being chambered correctly.

edit... when it chuffs and it loaded the ball just rolls out the end of the barrel. Also this problem is occuring at 280 fps, so I do not believe velocity is the problem.


_barry

The fps does not have an effect on the ability to fire. The chamber pressure does. However, the chamber pressure does affect the fps setup. Just because you are firing at 280fps doesn't mean you are set to the proper setting for your setup. Try turning up the velocity to 300fps using the setup that sort of works. That'll at least give you an idea if its a chamber pressure vs bolt spring issue.

How is your ball to barrel fit? Can you put a ball in the barrel by hand and have it just barely touch on two opposite surfaces? If the barrel is too large, that is fine. If the barrel is tight on the balls, that could be part of your problem.

If you change the white carrier orings, don't assume the same carrier sizes are going to work. You have to completely retune the setup.

[sup909]

I have put in a 2.0 carrier in and I have a leak out the back. what do I do?

[athomas]

I have put in a 2.0 carrier in and I have a leak out the back. what do I do?

The carrier that you use has nothing to do with any leak out the back. A leak out the back generally means your chamber pressure is too high for the regulator piston assembly. Either your velocity setting is too high or your regulator piston assembly is an older unit that operates at a lower pressure than the newer ones. The level 10 bolts require a higher chamber pressure, so you may need a new higher pressure regulator piston assembly.

[sup909]

The carrier that you use has nothing to do with any leak out the back. A leak out the back generally means your chamber pressure is too high for the regulator piston assembly. Either your velocity setting is too high or your regulator piston assembly is an older unit that operates at a lower pressure than the newer ones. The level 10 bolts require a higher chamber pressure, so you may need a new higher pressure regulator piston assembly.

Hmm, so what exactly am I going to need to purchase to fix this?

[athomas]

Hmm, so what exactly am I going to need to purchase to fix this?

What type of valve do you have? You should always have an oring kit for your valve.

First give the valve back a good cleaning. The piston assembly may be fine but the oring around it may be leaking due to dirt. Then, clean the rest of the valve. If you have a classic valve, you should replace the regulator seat oring. For or both types of valves(retro and classic) replace orings as necessary. Most of the time they don't need to be replaced unless they are causing problems. If after the valve back is cleaned, it still leaks out the back, then you need a new regulator piston assembly.

[sup909]

What type of valve do you have? You should always have an oring kit for your valve.

First give the valve back a good cleaning. The piston assembly may be fine but the oring around it may be leaking due to dirt. Then, clean the rest of the valve. If you have a classic valve, you should replace the regulator seat oring. For or both types of valves(retro and classic) replace orings as necessary. Most of the time they don't need to be replaced unless they are causing problems. If after the valve back is cleaned, it still leaks out the back, then you need a new regulator piston assembly.

I have a classic valve. It works fine on the LVL 7 bolt and it actually doesn't leak when the velocity screw is at its original setting when I installed the LVL 10. However the marker would not cock so I turned up the velocity screw as is said in the LVL 10 installation instructions. As soon as the bolt cocked "pshhst" the air comes rushing out the back.

What sort of really burns me is that literally a week ago I ordered some more nubbins, foamies and some other misc parts. I don't want to spend another order with more shipping for a single valve part that I might need to order.

[secretweaponevan]

I have a classic valve. It works fine on the LVL 7 bolt and it actually doesn't leak when the velocity screw is at its original setting when I installed the LVL 10. However the marker would not cock so I turned up the velocity screw as is said in the LVL 10 installation instructions. As soon as the bolt cocked "pshhst" the air comes rushing out the back.

What sort of really burns me is that literally a week ago I ordered some more nubbins, foamies and some other misc parts. I don't want to spend another order with more shipping for a single valve part that I might need to order.

Try a shorter bolt spring.

By "the marker would not cock", do you mean that the bolt wouldn't go forward at all, it would chuff, it would go forward a tiny bit and vent (lvl 10 working), or that the trigger wouldn't reset?