** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[Skragan]

[athomas]

You won't damage anything. All you are doing is preventing the bolt from moving forward, which simulates a ball stuck in the breach.

The level 10 works using differential force. The bolt spring applies a force towards the back. The chamber pressure applies force towards the front. The difference in force between the backwards force and the forward force is the amount of pressure the ball will feel when the bolt goes forward. Using a stiffer spring increases the backwards force, but requires more forward force to maintain velocity. The result is still less forward force on the ball, but the minimum operating velocity will be higher. When checking the operation of the gun, use a chrono and find the lowest velocity that the gun will consistently shoot at. Adjust the velocity 20fps above that amount. This velocity will give you the best consistent operation and great antichop ability for your level 10 bolt. If the minimum velocity is too high, you need to use the next lighter spring. If the minimum velocity is low, you need to use a stiffer spring to make it easier on paint.

[DemskeetSkeet]

Need help, 68 classic w/retrovalve, lvl 10 bolt
Hi there! I have had issues with my automag with retro valve, and level 10 bolt. I had tunaman himself help me strip down my valve and clean it out, install the lvl 10, and got it to fire flawlessly. He also told me that it would leak through the barrel and that I would have to change the gold ring(the ones that are marked with dots and lines) after some use. I changed it and it worked fine.

The problem I have been having with it is that it will dry fire, but when I put ammo in it it won't fire at all!

Is there a specific reason that it would be having this bolt stick with paint in it?

Please, I live in Michigan and no one near me knows about automags, the paintball store in my city and the next went out of business.

Any help would be appreciated. I am very upset because I have invested a lot of money into this gun, my cousin has the lvl 7 ventury bolt and retro valve and it works flawlessly.

Thank you very much!

[athomas]

The problem I have been having with it is that it will dry fire, but when I put ammo in it it won't fire at all!

Is there a specific reason that it would be having this bolt stick with paint in it?

Yes, there is a specific reason. The ball in the breach is causing the required forward force to be higher than the chamber pressure can exert on the bolt stem. You will have to increase the velocity setting of the gun to overcome this force. If nothing else in the gun was changed, then this should not have happened. Perhaps your leak out the front was not caused by a carrier that was excessively loose due to break-in, but rather was leaking due to the vent hole being exposed a bit after break-in. Go back to your original carrier. Remove the shims from the powertube and try that to see if the leak stops. If it doesn't, then go to the next larger carrier with the same oring. If it does not fire you will need to increase the velocity setting. If the velocity is too high, then you will need to use the next shorter/lighter bolt spring to allow the velocity to be turned down to a usable value.

[DemskeetSkeet]

Yes, there is a specific reason. The ball in the breach is causing the required forward force to be higher than the chamber pressure can exert on the bolt stem. You will have to increase the velocity setting of the gun to overcome this force. If nothing else in the gun was changed, then this should not have happened. Perhaps your leak out the front was not caused by a carrier that was excessively loose due to break-in, but rather was leaking due to the vent hole being exposed a bit after break-in. Go back to your original carrier. Remove the shims from the powertube and try that to see if the leak stops. If it doesn't, then go to the next larger carrier with the same oring. If it does not fire you will need to increase the velocity setting. If the velocity is too high, then you will need to use the next shorter/lighter bolt spring to allow the velocity to be turned down to a usable value.

Hey thanks for the response! I will first try to turn up the velocity to see if that works. If that doesn't help which carrier is the smallest and which one is the largest?

Thanks

[Skragan]

@all: Thanx for help, everything works great now (300fps with perfectly tuned level 10)

[DemskeetSkeet]

@all: Thanx for help, everything works great now (300fps with perfectly tuned level 10)

Lucky! I hope I can get my tuned in.

[athomas]

Hey thanks for the response! I will first try to turn up the velocity to see if that works. If that doesn't help which carrier is the smallest and which one is the largest?

Thanks

If you didn't know which carrier was largest or smallest based on the markings, how did you go to the next smaller carrier when your oring was broken in?

The carriers were marked with lines and dots. Each line represents a 1. A dot represents a 0.5. Thus, a 1 line and 1 dot would represent a 1.5 carrier. 2 lines would represent a 2.0 carrier.

[DemskeetSkeet]

If you didn't know which carrier was largest or smallest based on the markings, how did you go to the next smaller carrier when your oring was broken in?

The carriers were marked with lines and dots. Each line represents a 1. A dot represents a 0.5. Thus, a 1 line and 1 dot would represent a 1.5 carrier. 2 lines would represent a 2.0 carrier.

I did it originally atleast 6 months ago, sorry I am not a master like you are. I wish I was thats for sure, I know what this automag with retro valve and level 10 bolt can do, but I bought an ion and let my automag sit(which i shouldn't have). But now my Ion is broke(rear banjo fitting) And I would like to get this automag working. Which I know if I do it will be an amazing.

Thanks for your help thomas! You are an expert automag user.

[Red77]

hey guys,
i took my classic valved lvl10 mag out this weekend and hit a wall (figuratively). the previous weekend everything was working fine. i had the second smallest carrier, two shims, and the middle size main spring, all that and shooting steady in the 290fps range. this past weekend it would not shoot in that configuration. i put on the gold main spring and it still would not fire, after that i left the gold spring on and moved down to the smallest carrier, and it still would not shoot. note:all configurations mentioned had two shims. any ideas as to what the issue/solution is?

Thanks
Pete

[secretweaponevan]

hey guys,
i took my classic valved lvl10 mag out this weekend and hit a wall (figuratively). the previous weekend everything was working fine. i had the second smallest carrier, two shims, and the middle size main spring, all that and shooting steady in the 290fps range. this past weekend it would not shoot in that configuration. i put on the gold main spring and it still would not fire, after that i left the gold spring on and moved down to the smallest carrier, and it still would not shoot. note:all configurations mentioned had two shims. any ideas as to what the issue/solution is?

Thanks
Pete

Are you using CO2? Temperature fluctuations will affect pressure and therefor velocity.

Turn up the velocity.
Shorter mainspring.

You want the largest carrier that does not leak, not the smallest that will fire. Smaller carriers provide more friction/"stiction" and will cause the lvl 10 effect to kick in even when not encountering a jammed paintball.

[Red77]

im using hpa with an 850 psi output. i tried turning up the velocity with all the settings i listed but that just made the valve vent air, no cycling still. i will try the larger carrier suggestion when i get the chance.

thanks secretweaponevan for the help

[athomas]

hey guys,
i took my classic valved lvl10 mag out this weekend and hit a wall (figuratively). the previous weekend everything was working fine. i had the second smallest carrier, two shims, and the middle size main spring, all that and shooting steady in the 290fps range. this past weekend it would not shoot in that configuration. i put on the gold main spring and it still would not fire, after that i left the gold spring on and moved down to the smallest carrier, and it still would not shoot. note:all configurations mentioned had two shims. any ideas as to what the issue/solution is?

Thanks
Pete

If it wouldn't shoot with the 2nd smallest carrier, moving to a smaller carrier would only make the problem worst. You need to go to a larger carrier. Remove all the shims when tuning the level 10 setup. Then use the largest carrier that doesn't leak. After that, you can add the shims back in, but you probably don't have to.

[DemskeetSkeet]

Hey I have tweaked a few things with the level 10 because the velocity will be too high, I am now getting pressure through the gun but it wont fire at all. I have the 1.5 carrier with 2 shims. It wont let me de-gas the gun unless I literally turn the tank off(I have an on/off drop forward and it wont even let me de-gas it with the drop forward)

Let me know what I did wrong.

Thanks

[athomas]

Hey I have tweaked a few things with the level 10 because the velocity will be too high, I am now getting pressure through the gun but it wont fire at all. I have the 1.5 carrier with 2 shims. It wont let me de-gas the gun unless I literally turn the tank off(I have an on/off drop forward and it wont even let me de-gas it with the drop forward)

Let me know what I did wrong.

Thanks

If the gun can't fire, it can't get rid of the gas pressure out the front. Turning the ASA on-off to the off position only shuts off the tank, it doesn't get rid of the pressure in the system. Only taking the tank off, or removing a feed hose will do that.

If the gun won't fire, then the velocity isn't turned up far enough.