** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[phatty123]

Some of the twistlock dye barrels don't fit well with mags. If you suspect an issue with the nubbins, you are probably correct. There is a tiny knob on the back of the nubbin. This knob sits against the outer wall of the body and bends the nubbin into the barrel. On a poor fitting barrel if it doesn't have enough pressure on it, it won't protrude far enough into the barrel to be effective. You can increase the force of the nubbins by wrapping a piece of tape around the barrel over the back of the nubbins where the little knob sticks up.

That makes sense, but it doesnt explain the 1st shot chuff with the red spring. I have to turn up the velocity so high to get it to opertate effectively. I'm at work, but when I get home on thursday I will replace oring and check out the abrrel.


-barry

[athomas]

That makes sense, but it doesnt explain the 1st shot chuff with the red spring. I have to turn up the velocity so high to get it to opertate effectively. I'm at work, but when I get home on thursday I will replace oring and check out the abrrel.


-barry

With the red spring, you are operating too close to the lowest velocity that the gun will shoot at. Any sticking of the orings will cause a chuff. Once the orings free themselves, they generally move freely.

[phatty123]

With the red spring, you are operating too close to the lowest velocity that the gun will shoot at. Any sticking of the orings will cause a chuff. Once the orings free themselves, they generally move freely.

Well like I stated above at the velocity where the chuffing stops it vents out the back allen every shot. I will replace the reg piston oring to see if it helps. The carrier isnt too tite so I dont know what orings are sticking. When I ge

-barry

[athomas]

Well like I stated above at the velocity where the chuffing stops it vents out the back allen every shot. I will replace the reg piston oring to see if it helps. The carrier isnt too tite so I dont know what orings are sticking. When I ge

-barry

There is always some sticking with orings. You can't get away from it. We try to get the best fit to minimize it. With your red spring you are operating too close to the lowest functional velocity setting such that any sticking at all will cause the gun to misfire. That is because the level 10 at that setting is too sensitive.

When you turn up the velocity it consistently vents out the back because your regulator piston assembly is weak. It will need to be replaced if you are to operate at a higher chamber pressure. Most likely this is because it is an original retro valve piston assembly which had a lower rating due to the lower operating pressure requirements of the original level 7 valves.

[phatty123]

There is always some sticking with orings. You can't get away from it. We try to get the best fit to minimize it. With your red spring you are operating too close to the lowest functional velocity setting such that any sticking at all will cause the gun to misfire. That is because the level 10 at that setting is too sensitive.

When you turn up the velocity it consistently vents out the back because your regulator piston assembly is weak. It will need to be replaced if you are to operate at a higher chamber pressure. Most likely this is because it is an original retro valve piston assembly which had a lower rating due to the lower operating pressure requirements of the original level 7 valves.

It does not vent constently. Only when fire it sort of spurts out the back. I will try new orings. If that doesnt work then I will look into getting a piston. At 25 bucks plus shipping thats pretty steep. I might just stick with my gold spring if its gong to cost even more just to get this thing to work properly. I don't see why I would have to replace parts if the level 10 is drop in for all valves.

-barry

EDIT but I did see that the piston for sale on agd's website says it is pre adjusted for high pressure level 10 use.

[athomas]

It does not vent constently. Only when fire it sort of spurts out the back. I will try new orings. If that doesnt work then I will look into getting a piston. At 25 bucks plus shipping thats pretty steep. I might just stick with my gold spring if its gong to cost even more just to get this thing to work properly. I don't see why I would have to replace parts if the level 10 is drop in for all valves.

-barry

EDIT but I did see that the piston for sale on agd's website says it is pre adjusted for high pressure level 10 use.

One thing I forgot to mention. Retro valves have a tendency to shoot up in velocity, especially if you use a high input pressure. This would explain why your valve does not work so well for the first shot, but works fine on subsequent shots. It would also explain the spurting of air out the back. After you allow the valve to sit and the chamber air cools down, the pressure drops back to a lower value and everything goes back a value that barely operates the red spring.

The level 10 is basically a drop in modification, but on some valves, depending on your setup, it may exceed the pressure release of the older low pressure regulator assemblies.

[phatty123]

One thing I forgot to mention. Retro valves have a tendency to shoot up in velocity, especially if you use a high input pressure. This would explain why your valve does not work so well for the first shot, but works fine on subsequent shots. It would also explain the spurting of air out the back. After you allow the valve to sit and the chamber air cools down, the pressure drops back to a lower value and everything goes back a value that barely operates the red spring.

The level 10 is basically a drop in modification, but on some valves, depending on your setup, it may exceed the pressure release of the older low pressure regulator assemblies.

So to solve this problem I might need a new piston assembly? I'm going to replace the piston oring 1st though.


-barry

[athomas]

So to solve this problem I might need a new piston assembly? I'm going to replace the piston oring 1st though.


-barry

Yes. Replacing the piston assembly should get rid of the spurting problem.

Also, since this problem is taking up a lot of space on the level 10 thread, you should open a thread specifically to address it. You can point a link to your starting post here in this thread to let people know what is being done. Hopefully, you can get it fixed with the suggestions mentioned here. Then it won't matter anyway.

[sup909]

Installed, No Leaks, bolt "clicks", doesn't fire

I just installed the LVL 10 on my Classic 68 after replacing the Piston assembly. I put it back together, gassed it up. I have no leaks, the bolt "clicks" under the pressure, I can feel the air against the trigger. However when I pull the trigger nothing happens.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: Ok I cranked up the velocity ALOT to where the screw is 1 turn from being all the way in. However there is a very slight leak out the back. It can't be the regulator piston assembly can it? That is brand new.

Also I did the squeegee test and it only seemed to work when there was significant pressure to push against the bolt. I don't think a fragile ball will stop the bolt. Am I just paranoid here or should it be fairly easy to stop the bolt after this installation?

[lostprophet]

I just bought a new RT/Pro ULE, it has the Xvalve and it came wth a level X bolt installed. When I first gas up the marker fires fine but when a few seconds later it stops functioning and the rod behind the trigger does not repressurize, it doesn't even come backt o the rear of the trigger. What should I do?
Thanks

[athomas]

I just installed the LVL 10 on my Classic 68 after replacing the Piston assembly. I put it back together, gassed it up. I have no leaks, the bolt "clicks" under the pressure, I can feel the air against the trigger. However when I pull the trigger nothing happens.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: Ok I cranked up the velocity ALOT to where the screw is 1 turn from being all the way in. However there is a very slight leak out the back. It can't be the regulator piston assembly can it? That is brand new.

Also I did the squeegee test and it only seemed to work when there was significant pressure to push against the bolt. I don't think a fragile ball will stop the bolt. Am I just paranoid here or should it be fairly easy to stop the bolt after this installation?

If you replaced the piston assembly, then you should be fine there. If you had to increase the velocity setting as high as you indicated, then you are probably getting a pressure high enough to cause venting. Pressures this high without firing are usually a result of the bolt sticking. Make sure you are using the largest carrier size that doesn't leak. Remove all the shims when checking the size and always use the same white oring for each carrier size being checked. When doing the squeegie test, hold it tight against the face of the bolt. If you hold it more than 1/4" from the bolt face, you will feel full bolt impact which is higher than the level 10 reduced value.

[athomas]

I just bought a new RT/Pro ULE, it has the Xvalve and it came wth a level X bolt installed. When I first gas up the marker fires fine but when a few seconds later it stops functioning and the rod behind the trigger does not repressurize, it doesn't even come backt o the rear of the trigger. What should I do?
Thanks

It sounds like you are getting bolt stick. This is preventing the bolt from fully resetting which also keeps the sear and trigger rod from pushing forward. Use a larger carrier size in your level 10 setup to fix the problem.

[lostprophet]

It sounds like you are getting bolt stick. This is preventing the bolt from fully resetting which also keeps the sear and trigger rod from pushing forward. Use a larger carrier size in your level 10 setup to fix the problem.

I will try that, Thanks.

[TheRock]

is this normal? Im up to almost 20 cases now with the same carrier oring and using the smallest carrier, when its cold outside 1or 2 minus degrees i get leaking from the bolt like a to large carrier. when i get home and its been sitting inside its not leaking.

Using no shims and the grey spring thats been just a little cut and im around 295fps.
All my playing has been in below 6 plus degress and in minus with snow, all i can say is that im really impressed with lvl 10 performance and ULE ofcourse.
But i usally gets leaks down the barrel after 1,5 cases, is the autolube not good for longer lubing than this? when i have oiled it its good for a case again.
I understand that the carrier oring would get dry since all the air is passed thru it, but is it to soon?
Im used to my A5 that i went through 8 cases with in a biggame without any hickups, not even a battery change with ape board.

[athomas]

is this normal? Im up to almost 20 cases now with the same carrier oring and using the smallest carrier, when its cold outside 1or 2 minus degrees i get leaking from the bolt like a to large carrier. when i get home and its been sitting inside its not leaking.

Using no shims and the grey spring thats been just a little cut and im around 295fps.
All my playing has been in below 6 plus degress and in minus with snow, all i can say is that im really impressed with lvl 10 performance and ULE ofcourse.
But i usally gets leaks down the barrel after 1,5 cases, is the autolube not good for longer lubing than this? when i have oiled it its good for a case again.
I understand that the carrier oring would get dry since all the air is passed thru it, but is it to soon?
Im used to my A5 that i went through 8 cases with in a biggame without any hick-ups, not even a battery change with ape board.

The cold weather is causing the bolt stem to contract. It is contracting more than the carrier and oring, thus creating a more loose fit. It sounds like you need a smaller carrier. Since you are using the smallest one now, you may need to change the oring. Since the leaking only occurs in colder weather, you may be fine as summer approaches. Try removing a shim. That may help as well, as it will move the carrier oring farther away from the vent hole.