** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[RavishingEddie]

sometimes bolt stick.

I just put my emag together and adjusted the LVL 10 bolt with the Red spring. The gun shoots nice but at times I get bolt stick. Maybe when I turn the gun on and first shot is bolt stick and then after resetting it and I start firing no more bolt stick. Then occasionally I might get another after 20 shots. I am really not sure what is causing this. Can someone point me to the right direction?

[Geronimo7]

Try going to the next largest carrier. That should stop the bolt stick

[athomas]

well i put the red one and cranked the velocity not sure exact FPS no chrony here. but i can crank it and crank it and it still feels to stiff with the red spring on ?

What are you referring to when you mention "it feels stiff"?

If you are referring to the impact force, you test that by holding something against the front of the bolt when you pull the trigger. If the object held in the breach is not held directly against the front of the bolt, then you could feel the full force and not the reduced level 10 effect.

If you increased the velocity setting (chamber pressure) to the point that the gun starts to cycle, then the starting force of the bolt will not be that great because you have barely overcome the bolt spring force. That is how the level 10 works. Sometimes, if there is bolt stick due to a carrier that is too tight, then the force to start the bolt moving is greater than the force to keep the bolt moving. In that case you could feel a greater impact. Any instances of bolt stick like that can be fixed by using a larger carrier size.

[athomas]

I just put my emag together and adjusted the LVL 10 bolt with the Red spring. The gun shoots nice but at times I get bolt stick. Maybe when I turn the gun on and first shot is bolt stick and then after resetting it and I start firing no more bolt stick. Then occasionally I might get another after 20 shots. I am really not sure what is causing this. Can someone point me to the right direction?

You are getting mild bolt stick. Try the next larger carrier size. Make sure you are not using any shims when doing this. You don't want to induce a shim leak because the vent hole is on the edge of the carrier oring.

[canadian_nibbles]

What are you referring to when you mention "it feels stiff"?

If you are referring to the impact force, you test that by holding something against the front of the bolt when you pull the trigger. If the object held in the breach is not held directly against the front of the bolt, then you could feel the full force and not the reduced level 10 effect.

If you increased the velocity setting (chamber pressure) to the point that the gun starts to cycle, then the starting force of the bolt will not be that great because you have barely overcome the bolt spring force. That is how the level 10 works. Sometimes, if there is bolt stick due to a carrier that is too tight, then the force to start the bolt moving is greater than the force to keep the bolt moving. In that case you could feel a greater impact. Any instances of bolt stick like that can be fixed by using a larger carrier size.

I was referring to the spring how it fits on the bolt it takes a lot of force to get the spring on and off the bolt.so it seems like its too tight for it to even fire?

[athomas]

I was referring to the spring how it fits on the bolt it takes a lot of force to get the spring on and off the bolt.so it seems like its too tight for it to even fire?

It is snug. As the spring compresses, the coils loosen. It should be fine.

[SeaRiser2u]

Lvl 10 Leak

I just installed a level 10 bolt on my classic automag as recomended by instructions but with the small spring. I have no problems of it leaking near the assembly. I do have a problem with the velocity area leaking. In order to get the bolt to fire, I have to turn the velocity up and then it has no problems working. Upon turning the velocity up, it starts to leak through the velocity screw. If I turn it back down, the bolt wont fire.

There is a fine line but if I turn the velocity screw down just a little, the bolt I guess you could say half fires. But there is no leak at the back of the gun.

Any recomendations on what I may be doing wrong or missing?

[athomas]

I just installed a level 10 bolt on my classic automag as recomended by instructions but with the small spring. I have no problems of it leaking near the assembly. I do have a problem with the velocity area leaking. In order to get the bolt to fire, I have to turn the velocity up and then it has no problems working. Upon turning the velocity up, it starts to leak through the velocity screw. If I turn it back down, the bolt wont fire.

There is a fine line but if I turn the velocity screw down just a little, the bolt I guess you could say half fires. But there is no leak at the back of the gun.

Any recomendations on what I may be doing wrong or missing?

You need a new higher pressure regulator piston assembly.

The older assemblies were designed to work with the level 7 bolt system that operated at a lower pressure. The regulator piston assemblies were designed to release excess pressure to prevent excessively high velocities in the event of a regulator leak or failure. The newer level 10 bolt system works at a higher pressure that often exceeds the release pressure of the old regulator piston assemblies, such that it starts to leak as you reach the operating velocity.

[codejunkie]

Help

trying to tune LVL 10 but I am on the lowest carrier and have two shims in but m y gun will not fire at all
(I get pressure on the trigger but will not fire when I pull)

I tried turning up the velocity, but the RVA feels stuck and I don't want to force it

HELP!!!
-Code

[athomas]

trying to tune LVL 10 but I am on the lowest carrier and have two shims in but m y gun will not fire at all
(I get pressure on the trigger but will not fire when I pull)

I tried turning up the velocity, but the RVA feels stuck and I don't want to force it

HELP!!!
-Code

You will need to increase the velocity setting to get the gun to fire after installing the level 10. The rear velocity adjuster may be stiff, but you won't hurt anything by applying a bit of force.


Make sure you are using the largest carrier that doesn't leak. Remove the shims when testing.

[TTCosmo]

I have an air leak that I can't seem to get rid of...

First let me go over my setup. This is an RT/Pro ULE w/ xvalve, level 10, ULT.
This gun has been heavly used, its probably seen 100 cases of paint and at least that many more dry cycles. Im using the smallest level 10 carrier (no lines, no dots) because the larger ones all leak. Velocity is set at 280, tank output set to 950 psi.

The last two times I played, I noticed a small leak coming from the level 10. Since the gun was still using all of the original orings, last night I decided to fully clean the gun and replace all of the orings in the gun an oil it up. Im pretty good at keeping this thing tuned, oiled, and clean. However, I still have the same leak. The gun still cycles great. It stops leaking if I hold the trigger down but starts again if I let go. I was using the small spring, so I tried the red one and am still getting the same leak (I cranked up the velocity to adjust for the red spring).

My first thought was to check the sear and see if it was worn because pushing the sear forward in the grip frame (effectively pushing the sear up into the level 10 and the bolt backward) stops the leak. It looks fine, no real signs of wear (unlike my emag sear which is very worn and still works fine). This helped me visualize where the leak is coming from... The bolt is sitting too far forward and the vent hole is leaking on the carrier oring. To prove this, I put a .010 shim between the carrier and the plastic washer (the plastic washer I replaced last night too), to hold the carrier closer to the front of the gun. No more leak!

This doesn't seem like a good fix... I don't like the idea of a shim resting against the carrier instead of the plastic washer, they have a larger ID and I'm afraid of what the carrier oring might do... Anyone have any suggestions? What am i missing?

Edit: Rail bushing is in place. I also took the level 10 shims out, that didn't seem to make a difference at all.

[athomas]

I have an air leak that I can't seem to get rid of...

First let me go over my setup. This is an RT/Pro ULE w/ xvalve, level 10, ULT.
This gun has been heavly used, its probably seen 100 cases of paint and at least that many more dry cycles. Im using the smallest level 10 carrier (no lines, no dots) because the larger ones all leak. Velocity is set at 280, tank output set to 950 psi.

The last two times I played, I noticed a small leak coming from the level 10. Since the gun was still using all of the original orings, last night I decided to fully clean the gun and replace all of the orings in the gun an oil it up. Im pretty good at keeping this thing tuned, oiled, and clean. However, I still have the same leak. The gun still cycles great. It stops leaking if I hold the trigger down but starts again if I let go. I was using the small spring, so I tried the red one and am still getting the same leak (I cranked up the velocity to adjust for the red spring).

My first thought was to check the sear and see if it was worn because pushing the sear forward in the grip frame (effectively pushing the sear up into the level 10 and the bolt backward) stops the leak. It looks fine, no real signs of wear (unlike my emag sear which is very worn and still works fine). This helped me visualize where the leak is coming from... The bolt is sitting too far forward and the vent hole is leaking on the carrier oring. To prove this, I put a .010 shim between the carrier and the plastic washer (the plastic washer I replaced last night too), to hold the carrier closer to the front of the gun. No more leak!

This doesn't seem like a good fix... I don't like the idea of a shim resting against the carrier instead of the plastic washer, they have a larger ID and I'm afraid of what the carrier oring might do... Anyone have any suggestions? What am i missing?

Edit: Rail bushing is in place. I also took the level 10 shims out, that didn't seem to make a difference at all.

It does sound like your sear is worn. If the vent hole was sitting close to the carrier oring to start with, then wear on the sear tip would cause the leak, even if it was only a few thousands of an inch of wear. If you can see that there is wear, then it is probably a measurable amount. As many cycles as your mag has on it, it is probably time for a new sear.

[TTCosmo]

It does sound like your sear is worn. If the vent hole was sitting close to the carrier oring to start with, then wear on the sear tip would cause the leak, even if it was only a few thousands of an inch of wear. If you can see that there is wear, then it is probably a measurable amount. As many cycles as your mag has on it, it is probably time for a new sear.

Thanks, I'll see if i can dig up a new sear at my local airsmith and give that a try.

[indecisive]

After I gas up my 'mag and leave it for a while I have to pull the trigger a couple time before it will fire.
Normal? I hope not.
Also one of my P.E. tanks doesn't reset the trigger properly when it's hooked up to the gun.

[michbich]

After I gas up my 'mag and leave it for a while I have to pull the trigger a couple time before it will fire.
Normal? I hope not.
Also one of my P.E. tanks doesn't reset the trigger properly when it's hooked up to the gun.

About the trigger reset, try raising the velocity. What is the output pressure of the tank reg?