** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[Havoc_online]

spawnboy
take off the PMI reg. you dont need it, your just going to starve your valve of air. If you get a barrel leak, it usually means you need to go down a carrier. As Orge said, you need to use the same o'ring when you do this. Just try the 1.5 carrier with 2 shims and the long spring with that same o'ring(without the PMI reg). Before you gas up, back your velocity out so it doesnt fire, then slowly turn it up bit by bit till the marker fires reliably. Tell us how it goes.

XxslayerxX
what type of valve and settings?

[spawnboy]

Havoc

I don't have the original reg. This valve and reg were given to me and I have just added on.

Went to a .5 carrier w/ 3 shims longest spring. Backed my output to 775 and back my velocity too. She works but still hard on the dollar.

spawner

[Havoc_online]

what do you mean? The valve IS a reg, you dont need anything else. You have a pic of your set-up?

[spawnboy]

regnvalve

It says Perfect Charger on it.
I don't have a picture at this time that closley shows the valve.

spawner

[Havoc_online]

I see, I thought you meant a secondary reg.

To get a soft hit, try what I said, 1.5 carrier with the long spring. Remember the hit is only soft in the first stage, it speeds up VERY fast.

[spawnboy]

physics

Explain what you mean when you say "first stage"?

I'm trying to understand what is going on here. If my bolt is hitting hard with the spring with the most resistance then I should be able to slow down my bolt by.

1. Slowing down my velocity.
2. Turning down my output pressure from my tank.
3. Putting on yet a smaller carrier which in turn puts more friction on the rod inside the bolt?
4. Smash it against the floor and jump on it a few times.

Are we there yet?

spawner

[Havoc_online]

The whole point of the level 10 is that it's a two speed bolt which goes slow in the first stage and fast in the second. This allows you to have the best of both worlds, be soft on paint yet not sacrifice ROF.

1. Slowing down my velocity.

you need to be able to fire at 280-300 or the marker isnt going to get you very far.

2. Turning down my output pressure from my tank.

the pressure is regulated before it goes into the dump chamber so all the last thing you want is to starve the valve of air.

3. Putting on yet a smaller carrier which in turn puts more friction on the rod inside the bolt?

OR you could just do what I said and use the biggest carrier that doesnt leak. Using a tighter carrier means you need more pressure to get past the friction which inturn means that by the time you do, the bolt is flying faster than it should be in the first stage.

4. Smash it against the floor and jump on it a few times.

Do that to any other type of marker, it usually works, dont worry- it's safe.

[Garry Nees]

I have successfully installed the LVL10 in my AM Classic. There were no problems and adjustments were quickly made.

A team member purchased a LVL10 for his RT. I assisted with the installation. Sizing and testing the o-ring carrier essentially the leaking stopped with the forth from the smallest. However, a very faint bubbling can be heard. This bubbling remains present even with the smallest carrier. We completed the installation, shimmed, springed and adjusted. It functions but the bubbling is still present after several thousand shots. It is only audible at the bolt end of the receiver.

A further condition that has appeared is bleed down with rapid fire. Fire three or four rapid shots and the next is a blooper. This condition was not present prior to the LVL10 installation.

Any insight?

[spawnboy]

day 2

Havoc:

I followed your directions and have success. Due to lack of lube I have a small leak. I turned down my velocity and the bolt would barely move. I adjusted velocity to the point where the marker would shoot. I shot a ball and tested speed. It chronoed at 300. I put my squeege in and 3 out of 5 shot works but at times locks up on the squeege and a trigger pull (on my hyperframe) will not reset the bolt. I have to tug the squeege out of off the air. I currently have 3 shims in it.

thanks,

spawner

P.s. as this set up wears in what can I expect to happen and what would I do to fix them.

[Havoc_online]

Garry Nees
could you tell me the settings, I assume 2 carrier but how many shims and what spring? Also, could you get your hands on some calipers? You could just have a bad o'ring, try using a new one and see if it still makes the sound. Loss of pressure could effect a lot.

spawnboy

Due to lack of lube I have a small leak.

dont oil the carrier o'ring directly if you have a leak down the barrel when the marker is gassed up and is sitting there, it usually means you have to go down a carrier. Hence the famous line "use the biggest carrier that doesnt leak". If your getting bolt stick, throw in another shim and see if it does the trick.

P.s. as this set up wears in what can I expect to happen and what would I do to fix them.

Just dont bend your shims and basically all you have to worry about is breaking in your carrier o'ring, once that is done, your pretty much set. Since your going to go down a carrier size right now(which might be a tad tight), what you could expect once it's broken in is a lighter trigger pull and a softer hit not needing as much gas(if it starts leaking down the barrel again, you go down another carrier, probably wont happen for a long time if at all).

[Garry Nees]

HAVOC

As I recall the final configuration was two shims and the shortest spring. We'll be getting together this weekend and I'll check that. I did try the second o-ring supplied thinking there might be a minute blemish in the first. Yes, I have calipers available.

[Havoc_online]

Garry,
Things to check. Make sure his bolt bumper is fine(as soon as that inner ring starts going, it's worthless). Does the bolt fit the body and barrel he's using? Use the cut spring with the cut side on bolt. Is the powertube tip coming loose? Are the shims bent? Are the black outer o'rings on the carrier in good shape, not cut from forcing them down? How much pressure are you putting into the valve? And finally (I doubt it's off) but make sure the bolt stem is the proper length(2.010").

[Dzerzhinsky]

lvl 10

i just installed my lvl 10 and everything seams to bein goin good. but i have a problem that i will shoot a hundred or so shots off and it starts to leak out of the back where you adjust the velocity..help me?

BlackVCG: Turn down the velocity until it stops leaking. If it won't stop leaking at 300fps, then you need a new piston or try a shorter bolt spring.

[boomerfoxtrot]

LeVeL 10 911 !!

my set up..

Brand New Emag *less then 3000 shots*

I post in Tech already, and no help =[

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57039

I just took it all out, and started over...

2 Shems
#2 Carrier w/ #2 O-Ring
Med Spring ..

LEAKS BAD down the barrel

0 Shems
#1.5 Carrier w/ #1.5 O-Ring
LEAKS BAD down the barrel
Med Spring, and Long Spring.. same results

0 Shems
#.5 Carrier w/ .5 O-Ring
Long Spring, and Med Spring
LEAKS BAD down the barrel


o Shems
#0 Carrier w/ 0 # O-Ring
Long Spring, Med Spring
LEAKS BAD down the barrel

I am out of sizes to go...
If I put the gun in M Mode, and hold the trigger the leaking stops *stops on every set up*
I am lost....


HELP ..

BlackVCG: Try using a different o-ring. Also, make sure that you're installing the o-ring side of the carrier into the powertube first. Check to make sure there aren't any scratches on the bolt piston pin. Test the o-ring fit on the bolt piston. Make sure it's got good friction before you use that carrier size.


RESPONCE:: The o-ring has good friction on the piston.. I can slide it, but it sticks on the bolt piston if I put it on and let it go.. so i's good friction.
That's on the three smallest carriers..
I have TWO sets of LX .. so I even tried using the other bolt... same deal..

the LX kit is put in right, the o-ring side is in the powertube first.. the bold piston doesn't have scratchs...

I will try all the o-rings for the inside of the carrier and let you know what happens.. thanks..

PROBLEM FIXED!! It was the BACK WASHER ... I don't know what was wrong with it.. looked fine.. but I replaced it, and then the gun worked fine!!!!! so I need to order me some more.. I bet I dinged it up at the Tourny taking the carriers out so many times.. and I was kinda in a hurry..

[Inviscid3]

LVL 10 bolt

I have a problem. My lvl 10 works great no leaks. If I try to rapid fire on my E-Mag the bolt stops as if there is a ball in the way but there is nothing there. if I keep it at about 11-12 bps it is fine. but any faster and the bolt stops about mid way. Any info would be great. Works fine and never stops w/ stock bolt.