** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[foefumm]

Are These the Correct Springs?

I recently purchased a new lvlX kit for my stock minimag, and am currently trying to install/troubleshoot it.
But I want to know if I have the correct parts. The instructions mention a "middle spring with one end cut".
These are the springs that came with my kit:

It looks like I have 2 of the long length ones...the red one is just a hair shorter than the silver one. Are those the correct springs that are supposed to come with the kit? When I use the red(middle size?)spring I cannot get my gun to shoot, even with velocity turned up all the way.
Just need some input before I contact AGD...


Thank you

[secretweaponevan]

I recently purchased a new lvlX kit for my stock minimag, and am currently trying to install/troubleshoot it.
But I want to know if I have the correct parts. The instructions mention a "middle spring with one end cut".
These are the springs that came with my kit:

It looks like I have 2 of the long length ones...the red one is just a hair shorter than the silver one. Are those the correct springs that are supposed to come with the kit? When I use the red(middle size?)spring I cannot get my gun to shoot, even with velocity turned up all the way.
Just need some input before I contact AGD...


Thank you

Yup, red spring is the "middle" spring. They used to use a cut one as a middle spring, but now use a red one that is uncut instead.

Quick LVL 10 instructions:
Follow these steps in order.
1. Break in carrier o-ring with 1000 shots.
2. Move broken-in white o-ring to largest carrier that does not leak.
3. If bolt sticks on squeegy test, add shims until it resets reliably.
4. Chrono marker to field speed. (this is important, don't just do it by sound)
5. If gun breaks paint (test with no loader and make an electrical tape string for paintball to hang only halfway in breach) use a longer mainspring (on the contrary, if bolt continuously "LVL 10's" or "chuffs" use a shorter mainspring).
6. Profit.

[foefumm]

Thank you for the info, Secret. I was not sure if the red spring should be shorter than it is. Anyway I will do what you suggested & keep plugging away....wish I had a chrono . But I will go to a field to chrony this thing.

[athomas]

I recently purchased a new lvlX kit for my stock minimag, and am currently trying to install/troubleshoot it.
But I want to know if I have the correct parts. The instructions mention a "middle spring with one end cut".

It looks like I have 2 of the long length ones...the red one is just a hair shorter than the silver one. Are those the correct springs that are supposed to come with the kit? When I use the red(middle size?)spring I cannot get my gun to shoot, even with velocity turned up all the way.
Just need some input before I contact AGD...


Thank you

As mentioned, the red spring is the middle spring.

If the gun won't shoot, even with the velocity up all the way, it is generally a symptom of bolt stick caused by a carrier that is too tight. When setting up your level 10, make sure you remove all shims from your setup. That way you won't get any false leak indications. I wouldn't worry about putting the shims back in unless you have problems with the bolt not resetting after a chuffed shot. A chuffed shot is not the same as bolt stick, so don't add or remove shims to correct bolt stick.

For best performance, use the largest carrier that doesn't leak. After a few thousand shots, you may develop a slight intermittent leak. If that happens, go to the next tighter carrier using the same white carrier oring.

If you have the largest carrier that doesn't leak and the gun still won't shoot at the highest velocity setting, try putting a washer inside the velocity adjuster. That will allow you to get more pressure on the regulator spring pack to increase the velocity.

[zeroex]

hi, i was dry firing my mag today, and the x-valve started to leak. i'm not sure if this is related to the lvl 10, but i wasn't sure if it was just the x-valve or the lvl 10 bolt. basically, the holding pin pops out when i gas up the mag, and it wont stay in. it was firing normally the other day, nothing taken apart or changed. any suggestions? thanks!

ps. i tried changing the velocity to see if anything would be different, but nothing did. thanks again!

[secretweaponevan]

hi, i was dry firing my mag today, and the x-valve started to leak. i'm not sure if this is related to the lvl 10, but i wasn't sure if it was just the x-valve or the lvl 10 bolt. basically, the holding pin pops out when i gas up the mag, and it wont stay in. it was firing normally the other day, nothing taken apart or changed. any suggestions? thanks!

ps. i tried changing the velocity to see if anything would be different, but nothing did. thanks again!

Where did it leak from; bolt, velocity adjuster, or on/off?

What do you mean by "holding pin"?

[Vicious_Bebop]

Does anyone have a list of lvl 10 carrier sizes according to the markings? I have lost the disc and info I got with my lvl 10 bolt. Any help would be great.

I have been looking for an hour or so, but can't find it. So I hope I am not repeating.

[zeroex]

Where did it leak from; bolt, velocity adjuster, or on/off?

What do you mean by "holding pin"?

sorry for my lack of terminology. its the on/off assembly; it pops out from the valve, and leaks from there. i tried lubing it, but that didn't work.

[secretweaponevan]

sorry for my lack of terminology. its the on/off assembly; it pops out from the valve, and leaks from there. i tried lubing it, but that didn't work.

When the valve is inside the body, and both are then secured to the rail, the rail should keep everything in place.
Is the body/valve wobbly on the rail, or are they both secure?
Does your on/off assembly have all the parts installed correctly?
Here is the link to the RT valve family's blow up diagram in pdf format:

http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/downloads/retroexploded1.pdf

[zeroex]

When the valve is inside the body, and both are then secured to the rail, the rail should keep everything in place.
Is the body/valve wobbly on the rail, or are they both secure?
Does your on/off assembly have all the parts installed correctly?
Here is the link to the RT valve family's blow up diagram in pdf format:
http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/down...oexploded1.pdf

mmm. thanks for the diagram. and yea, all the parts are correctly installed and the rail, body, and valve are secure. it shot fine just the other night. Didn't take it apart or touch it; it started leaking from the on/off assembly after i fired off one shot while dry firing. Also, it worked fine for the past year.

however, one thing that does seem odd is that the pin get stuck on the o-rings, while the top/bottom on off assembly gets blown out. do you think it could be old o-rings in that case?

[secretweaponevan]

mmm. thanks for the diagram. and yea, all the parts are correctly installed and the rail, body, and valve are secure. it shot fine just the other night. Didn't take it apart or touch it; it started leaking from the on/off assembly after i fired off one shot while dry firing. Also, it worked fine for the past year.

however, one thing that does seem odd is that the pin get stuck on the o-rings, while the top/bottom on off assembly gets blown out. do you think it could be old o-rings in that case?

Could be old o-rings, or your brass on/off bottom might be galled(smashed in/mushroomed), especially if it was on a pneumag before you bought it. Stock clippard rams have too much travel and can force the sear into the on/off bottom and gall the crap out of it.

[zeroex]

Could be old o-rings, or your brass on/off bottom might be galled(smashed in/mushroomed), especially if it was on a pneumag before you bought it. Stock clippard rams have too much travel and can force the sear into the on/off bottom and gall the crap out of it.

Argh! I'm using a pneumag...is there anyway i can fix it? or would i have to buy a new on/off bottom/assembly?

if i do have to buy new parts, is there anything i can do to prevent the sear from smashing up the bottom?

[secretweaponevan]

Argh! I'm using a pneumag...is there anyway i can fix it? or would i have to buy a new on/off bottom/assembly?

if i do have to buy new parts, is there anything i can do to prevent the sear from smashing up the bottom?

Take a look at the hole in the bottom of the on/off bottom. Does the hole look smooshed, or "not round" anymore? If so, I'd send it to someone who is good at doing pneumags. You need a sear travel stop (through back of frame usually), or a spacer inside the stock clippard ram to limit the ram travel.

Deburring the on/off bottom shouldn't be too hard.

[athomas]

Argh! I'm using a pneumag...is there anyway i can fix it? or would i have to buy a new on/off bottom/assembly?

if i do have to buy new parts, is there anything i can do to prevent the sear from smashing up the bottom?

This is not a level 10 problem and should be moved to its own tech thread.

The galling of the bottom of the on-off assembly could make the on-off pin stick, but shouldn't make it leak. The orings that cause the leak are on the inside top of the bottom section and on the outside bottom. Both of these orings shouldn't be affected by galling. There could be debris from the pounding though. Try replacing both lower on-off orings. If the hole is smashed in, try reaming it out at the bottom only, to remove the burrs.

Further discussions on this to be posted in the thread below.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226119

[MrScorcher]

retro valved minimag with lvl 10 + zgrip

Leaking somewhat heavily (hissing) out of velocity adjuster. it will cycle even with the leak. holding the trigger down does not change the leaking. Velocity was around 285 last time it was chronoed, middle spring installed with 1.5 spacer(no shims atm).

Thank you for any help you can provide.