** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[athomas]

Pushing the bolt does stop the leak.

The sear I'm using is brand new, though, so I'm not sure what I can do to affect how far forward the bolt sits.

Maybe a piece of scotch tape inside the sear pin groove on the rail? Maybe that would allow the sear to sit a bit farther back?

This same rail was used on for a while on my classic valve with level 10 and it had a similar problem. But with that valve I could correct the leak by using a shorter spring.

Well, if you are using a rail bushing, and I assume you are, then you have a rail that is out of spec. I wouldn't go with the scotch tape idea. The sear pin is usually tight as it is. You might be able to press fit a solid slug into the rail bushing hole and drill the hole in it so it is forward of where it normally sits. That would push the valve farther forward.

What might work, is if you shave a tiny bit off the inner flat edge of the powertube tip. Its the flat surface that pushes against the carrier. Taking a bit off it will allow the carrier to sit farther forward. Make sure you do it against a flat surface so you don't sand more off one side than the other.

The other option is to shave a bit off the carrier itself. The problem with this option is that it only works on the one carrier. If you have to make a change for any reason, you will have to do it again for the next carrier, and then the carriers won't be interchangeable in other guns.

[factoid]

I've got another rail, I just haven't been using it because for whatever reason the sear doesn't have enough travel in it to push the on/off pin completely into the valve so that it can be removed. It fires fine, but whenever I want to remove the valve I have to take the body off the rail. I'm working on some other options to make that rail work, or possibly replacing that sear.

I did some more testing with springs and I found that my "medium" spring that I made by cutting a coil or so off a long grey spring actually causes the leak to get worse.

So what I'm seeing is this:

With gold spring, valve gasses up and holds air. After firing a shot or two it starts leaking and will leak if any slight pressure is put on the trigger.

Thus the vent hole is not lining up right against the power-tube o-ring, probably too far forward.

I put in a longer spring and now the valve leaks at gas up. Wiggling the bolt does not stop the leak. I'm assuming now that the vent hole is too far BEHIND the carrier o-ring. This can now be adjusted with shims to move the carrier back again and hopefully seal it up.

If none of this works I'm going to trash this rail and go back to my wonky RT rail.

[factoid]

I've got another rail, I just haven't been using it because for whatever reason the sear doesn't have enough travel in it to push the on/off pin completely into the valve so that it can be removed. It fires fine, but whenever I want to remove the valve I have to take the body off the rail. I'm working on some other options to make that rail work, or possibly replacing that sear.

I did some more testing with springs and I found that my "medium" spring that I made by cutting a coil or so off a long grey spring actually causes the leak to get worse.

So what I'm seeing is this:

With gold spring, valve gasses up and holds air. After firing a shot or two it starts leaking and will leak if any slight pressure is put on the trigger.

Thus the vent hole is not lining up right against the power-tube o-ring, probably too far forward.

I put in a longer spring and now the valve leaks at gas up. Wiggling the bolt does not stop the leak. I'm assuming now that the vent hole is too far BEHIND the carrier o-ring. This can now be adjusted with shims to move the carrier back again and hopefully seal it up.

If none of this works I'm going to trash this rail and go back to my wonky RT rail.

Here's where I'm at now.

a .5 carrier, no shims and just a tiny amount of leaking. Using the slightly longer spring and a smaller spacer seems to be doing the trick mostly.

If I notice a leak I can generally make it stop by holding the trigger down a couple seconds until the air chamber completely drains and then release.

It's not doing it 100% of the time anymore, so it's an improvement. I also found that I can affect the leaking by using an allen wrench on the field strip screw. Sometimes there's a sweet spot where it won't leak, which leads me to believe that much of my problem is stemming from my rail and its tolerances.

It's good enough to play with this weekend for now.

[athomas]

I'm assuming now that the vent hole is too far BEHIND the carrier o-ring. This can now be adjusted with shims to move the carrier back again and hopefully seal it up.

If the vent hole is behind the oring, it won't leak. It only leaks when the vent hole is exposed at the front of the oring. This allows the air to pass through the center of the bolt stem to the hole on the side of the bolt stem, bypassing the carrier oring seal. Adding shims pushes the carrier and oring farther back and exposes the vent hole even more.

[factoid]

A combination of a new (used) RT Pro rail and a tighter carrier solved it. FINALLY.

I'm pretty sure something is out of spec on the AM/MM rail I was using. This is the second gun I've had it on that had chronic level 10 leaking problems.

I was leaking on gas-up just a little when I switched rails so I put on a 0 carrier and that solved it. I think I finally broke in the o-ring playing last weekend so it should stay tuned now. The bolt is pretty tight on the powertube, but it shows no signs of bolt stick.

[Flatliner333]

Sorry if this has been answered already but this thread is a mile long. First off I am using a used X Valve with a lvl X bolt, ULT and not much for lvl X parts as it did not come with any extra carriers or springs. Warp left Ule body, AM/MM rail and an E Grip frame. My problem is that the gun will fire and not leak at the bolt but the bolt does not always want to reset all the way. I have plenty of clearance in regards to the sear and the solinoid. I have also replaced the regulator piston but it is still leaking from the velocity adjustment.

[athomas]

Sorry if this has been answered already but this thread is a mile long. First off I am using a used X Valve with a lvl X bolt, ULT and not much for lvl X parts as it did not come with any extra carriers or springs. Warp left Ule body, AM/MM rail and an E Grip frame. My problem is that the gun will fire and not leak at the bolt but the bolt does not always want to reset all the way. I have plenty of clearance in regards to the sear and the solinoid. I have also replaced the regulator piston but it is still leaking from the velocity adjustment.

You shouldn't have had to replace the regulator piston in an X-valve. They had the high pressure pistons from the factory, and most haven't been around long enough to be bad. If its leaking out the back, then you probably have a piece of dirt in the back section of the valve. When you reset the bolt and shoot, is the velocity setting correct, or is it high? A high velocity that doesn't go down when adjusted, would indicate a bad regulator seat oring in the valve. If it leaks all the time, then the problem is a bad/dirty oring around the regulator piston assembly or a bad regulator piston assembly. Since they usually don't leak, and you already replaced yours, I would suspect the problem is one of the orings.

For the bolt sticking, the problem is most likely that the level 10 carrier is too tight. You need a set of carriers to properly adjust the inner diameter of the carrier oring. It could also be that the ULT has one too many shim installed, but I would tune the level 10 first.

[Boobie817]

bolt stick

I'm trying to read through all the threads but its hard. Especially with 70 pages. I have an Xvalve with ULT and lvl x. It was tuned and worked perfect for years. I just changed to a warp left ule body and I'm getting bolt stick. I tried different carrier all new orings, different springs and just can't figure it out. I'm using the second smallest carrier with just a dot on it and no shims. I'm using the smallest spring too. This setup works flawlessy for years. Even last sept it was fine. The ule body was new. Please help.
Sometimes the gun will fire. When it sticks its not resetting. I can push the bolt back with my squeegee and its fine until it sticks again. I can hear the air slowly venting if I wait then it clicks and resets.

[Ando]

I'm using the second smallest carrier with just a dot on it and no shims. I'm using the smallest spring too.

Is that the smallest carrier that won't leak?

[Boobie817]

Is that the smallest carrier that won't leak?

yes. this setup has worked fine for years. i set this up in 04. i switched to a ule body about 2 months ago and now i have bolt stick. cant figure it out. can a body make me have to retune the lvl x again?

[Ando]

Well hate to burst your bubble but you have to resize the carrier to the new oring. Every oring is different and will need to be readjusted.

[athomas]

I'm trying to read through all the threads but its hard. Especially with 70 pages. I have an Xvalve with ULT and lvl x. It was tuned and worked perfect for years. I just changed to a warp left ule body and I'm getting bolt stick. I tried different carrier all new orings, different springs and just can't figure it out. I'm using the second smallest carrier with just a dot on it and no shims. I'm using the smallest spring too. This setup works flawlessy for years. Even last sept it was fine. The ule body was new. Please help.
Sometimes the gun will fire. When it sticks its not resetting. I can push the bolt back with my squeegee and its fine until it sticks again. I can hear the air slowly venting if I wait then it clicks and resets.

Does the new body fit flat on the rail? Check that the feed tube does not rest on the side of the rail and prevent the body from sitting down tight. Some rails need to have a bit of metal filed away to allow this to happen.

[Boobie817]

Well hate to burst your bubble but you have to resize the carrier to the new oring. Every oring is different and will need to be readjusted.

I didn't think of that. I just put in a new o ring.

[athomas]

I didn't think of that. I just put in a new o ring.

Yes, I should have mentioned that too. It is the oring that you are adjusting when you change carrier sizes. If you change orings, you need to adjust the inner diameter of the new oring using the different sized carriers. The proper carrier adjusts the inner diameter of the oring to seal against the bolt stem without any added friction.

[Boobie817]

Yes, I should have mentioned that too. It is the oring that you are adjusting when you change carrier sizes. If you change orings, you need to adjust the inner diameter of the new oring using the different sized carriers. The proper carrier adjusts the inner diameter of the oring to seal against the bolt stem without any added friction.

i thonk im off by one size. the gun worked flawlessly today then at the second to last game it jammed up. hopefully i can get this fixed. if i get my cocker working first this could turn out bad. lol