** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[RogueMMPT]

Micromag with lvl 10 upgrade kit.

I recently aquired a Micromag with a MicroMag bolt. I Installed the lvl X upgrade kit tonight and it vents out the rear velocity adjuster. It has one of those "dial a welt" toolless adjusters and vents out the center. I replaced all the orings in the bolt and lubed it well. I have to turn it way up to get it to fire and then it vents like made out the rear. I tried the shortest of the two springs and the original spring with the same result. Any suggestions?

I'm sorry, but after a long day, I didn't have the patience to read all 72 pages.


Thanks!

[Ando]

It's your reg piston. You'll need a new one. The older style ones can't handle the pressure that it takes to move the lvl 10.

You didn't happen to use the gray spring did you?

[RogueMMPT]

No, I didn't try the grey one. Everything I did see said the leaking was a result of the spring being too long, so I went with the shorter ones.

So, reg piston, eh? I'll have to try to swap it out...how do I remove it?

Thanks!

It's your reg piston. You'll need a new one. The older style ones can't handle the pressure that it takes to move the lvl 10.

You didn't happen to use the gray spring did you?

[RogueMMPT]

Ok, got the reg piston out and swapped it out with one from another marker. Leaks less, but still leaks.

[Ando]

Pull it back out. Clean the inside housing with Q Tips. Replace the oring on the piston and reinstall.

[athomas]

Ok, got the reg piston out and swapped it out with one from another marker. Leaks less, but still leaks.

Was the swapped reg piston one of the newer high pressure versions or was it one of the original versions. If it wasn't one of the new high pressure ones, it will leak also. All older low pressure reg pistons will leak eventually when used with a level 10 unless the conditions are near perfect.

[ScottyBeans]

I just got a level 10 for my RT Pro (upgrading from the original superbolt haha) and have a couple questions:

1) How many carrier sizes is the kit supposed to come with? Mine came with four sizes (0,.5,1,1.5) but most install guides say to start with size 2.
2) I did an initial install and it seems to work ok (read, not perfect but cycles) using the 1.5 carrier with 1 shim. I have the gold (shortest) spring in and I'm not sure where the velocity would be with paint. If I hold the trigger back it leaks or vents air for approx 1.5 seconds and then stops. What's going on there?

Thanks and sorry for being such a mag n00b

[athomas]

The new kits come with the sizes you have. The old kits used to come with sizes from 0 to 3.5. Most of the time carriers above 1.5 were never needed, so the larger ones were dropped from the kit.

The gold spring will work for all velocities.

If you hold the trigger down and it leaks a bit before sealing, it usually means the bolt stem vent hole is close to the sealing edge of the oring causing it to weep air until the oring sets and tightens up. Remove the shim and you should be fine. Shims shouldn't be used anyway. Shims only change how far the bolt needs to move before it can vent air and reset. Most of the time, even in extreme cases of a breach blockage, the bolt will always move far enough to expose the bolt stem vent hole.

Level 10 tuning guide:

When tuning your level 10, remove all the shims from the powertube before starting. They don't affect the operation but they can cause false leaks which cause you to use a carrier size that is too tight. Don't put them back when you are done. You shouldn't ever need them.

For carrier sizing:

Find the carrier size that causes the installed oring to fit freely over the bolt stem. The carrier should sit on the bolt stem without moving if the bolt is held in a vertical position. If you tap the valve on a hard surface, the carrier should be loose enough to allow the bolt to move. If you have to force the carrier onto the bolt stem with any force at all, then it is too tight. Install the bolt and valve into the gun. When aired up there should be no leaking. If it leaks, take the carrier out and replace it with the next smaller size. Always use the same white carrier oring in each carrier that you use. It is the orings that you are adjusting. Try it again. You want to use the largest carrier size that does not produce a leak.

Any time that the gun fires and does not reset or short strokes and does not reset, or just chuffs and does not reset, the problem is most likely a carrier that is too tight. Installing shims will not help. Shims only help if the bolt moves, hits an object but does not vent any air, and then cannot reset because the chamber is still fully charged. Most of the time the bolt always moves far enough to expose the vent hole, get rid of excess air, and then reset.

For spring adjustment:

You want to use the bolt spring that allows you to shoot about 20fps above the lowest velocity that the gun will cycle at. So, if you want to use the gun at 280fps, then your desired lower limit of operation is 260fps. Insert your long bolt spring. Turn the velocity adjuster down before you air up the valve. Then gradually turn up the velocity until the gun will cycle. This is your lower velocity. Measure it. If it is above 265fps, then you will need a shorter spring or you will need to clip the one you have (unless you have red one. They are usually in the correct range). If you clip a spring, only clip half a coil at a time and then try it using the same procedure of starting with a low velocity setting. Make sure you put the cut end of the spring towards the bolt. If you have the short spring installed, and the lower range is 30fps below the desired shooting velocity, I wouldn't worry about using a stiffer spring and would just go with the short bolt spring. If it was much lower than that, I would definitely clip a long spring to get closer to the desired range.

[ScottyBeans]

THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU athomas!

I followed the tips in your post. Gun shoots great now. Played today, no chops or issues shooting 260 +-8 or so the whole day. I'm now officially a level 10 believer.

[athomas]

THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU athomas!

I followed the tips in your post. Gun shoots great now. Played today, no chops or issues shooting 260 +-8 or so the whole day. I'm now officially a level 10 believer.

That's great to hear. The level 10 bolt does work really well when tuned properly.

[sniper42]

I've been having trouble getting my micromag up and running and hopefully someone can help. I've got an rt pro valve with a level 10 bolt. I initially had the original reg piston and it worked fine so long as I didn't want to shoot above 260, that is when it started leaking. So I ordered a new reg piston from tunaman. I'm using the .5 carrier. I started off with the red bolt spring. I followed all the guides and turned the velocity up until it first cycles, this happens at about 250fps. Since that is 20fps below where I want to be I thought I'd be good. Well when I try to turn up the velocity to get to field velocity, it doesn't increase at all. I can turn it in until the velocity nut bottoms out and it won't go above 250. I tried all three bolt springs and it is the same case with each one, though at different velocities. Am I missing something crucial here? I am stumped.

[athomas]

I've been having trouble getting my micromag up and running and hopefully someone can help. I've got an rt pro valve with a level 10 bolt. I initially had the original reg piston and it worked fine so long as I didn't want to shoot above 260, that is when it started leaking. So I ordered a new reg piston from tunaman. I'm using the .5 carrier. I started off with the red bolt spring. I followed all the guides and turned the velocity up until it first cycles, this happens at about 250fps. Since that is 20fps below where I want to be I thought I'd be good. Well when I try to turn up the velocity to get to field velocity, it doesn't increase at all. I can turn it in until the velocity nut bottoms out and it won't go above 250. I tried all three bolt springs and it is the same case with each one, though at different velocities. Am I missing something crucial here? I am stumped.

Its not a level 10 problem.

Try putting a washer inside your velocity adjuster so that you get more tension on the regulator springs.

[sniper42]

That would be the only issue? It wasn't doing this with the old reg piston. I will give the washer idea a go and see if that fixes it though.

[sniper42]

Well the washers didn't help. Once it starts cycling, it has about 3 full turns until the nut bottoms out. However, the velocity doesn't change through these full turns. It actually decreases by about 10 fps.

[athomas]

Well the washers didn't help. Once it starts cycling, it has about 3 full turns until the nut bottoms out. However, the velocity doesn't change through these full turns. It actually decreases by about 10 fps.

Hmmm. That doesn't make sense. Screwing the adjuster in puts more tension on the spring, which means it takes more pressure in the front chamber to push it back and shut off the air supply, thus regulating the chamber pressure to a higher value. Make sure both reg springs are in place. Is the air supply in your tank high enough for operation (not empty) and is the tank output pressure high enough to supply your valve?

Anyway, this isn't a level 10 issue. Start a new thread in the tech section and copy the contents of this conversation over to it.