** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[Laku]

I replaced my stock bolt system with the level 10 (I am using a classic valve). I used two of the small shims and the brass piece with one line and one dot. I am happy with the bolt's performance and sensitivity but I had to crank up the regulator about a full turn to get the FPS back up where it needed to be (is this normal?). There is a very slight air leak down the barrel. Do I remove a shim or two or do I need a different size brass item down the tube? (sorry, not sure what it's called right meow). The size that I am using right now has one line and one dot.

You shouldn't need any shims. look at the quote two posts up. That tells you exactly what to do. Brass things are called carriers.

[Motrin870]

Much appreciated for pointed that out! I don't understand the logic behind the bolt spring though. Does this mean that it uses less air at the correct long spring setting vs the short spring setting as far has how high/low you have to adjust the regulator for the required FPS?

[Laku]

Much appreciated for pointed that out! I don't understand the logic behind the bolt spring though. Does this mean that it uses less air at the correct long spring setting vs the short spring setting as far has how high/low you have to adjust the regulator for the required FPS?

It means that the bolt moves the ball more gently to the barrel when using a stiffer spring. Depending on the spring stiffness the gun won't cycle below certain fps, lower the tension the lower the fps the gun will be able to cycle, but then the bolt won't be as gentle.

[athomas]

...I used two of the small shims and the brass piece with one line and one dot. I am happy with the bolt's performance and sensitivity but I had to crank up the regulator about a full turn to get the FPS back up where it needed to be (is this normal?). There is a very slight air leak down the barrel. Do I remove a shim or two or do I need a different size brass item down the tube?....

Take out the shims. You shouldn't ever need them. They might be causing your leak down the barrel. If it still leaks down the barrel after you remove the shims, go to the next smaller carrier size, which is the 1.0 (1 line, no dots). Remember to use the same white powertube oring when changing carrier sizes. Its the oring tension you are adjusting.

When you install the level 10, the smaller bolt stem hole in the powertube starts the bolt off slower and also slows down the air release compared to a level 7 bolt. This reduces the velocity at the same chamber pressure. You need to increase the velocity setting to get the velocity back up to the proper setting. A stiffer bolt spring requires an even higher velocity setting. Its normal. The smaller hole in the carrier oring compared to the original powertube inside diameter, combined with increased tension of stiffer bolt springs, reduces the impact force of the bolt on the ball, which is the whole idea behind the level 10.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

I have tried several combinations of carriers and shims.

the universal problem across all sets of carrier/no shims/some shims seems to be failure to reset after a chop or simulated chop.

right now i have the 1.5 with three shims, after trying 0, 1, 2, and 3.


stock x valve, ule body, lukes custom rail, intelliframe.

also the sear is an after market one that came stock on a minimag from glenn palmer. the pin connects to a higher point and seems shorter.

would a stock sear work better?

[athomas]

If its not resetting, then you are getting bolt stick. That is caused by a carrier that is too tight for the oring you are using. If the next carrier size causes leaking and you aren't using shims, then perhaps your sear is worn. A worn sear will cause the bolt to sit farther forward and could slightly expose the bolt stem vent hole. If this happens, you end up installing a carrier that is too tight in order to choke off the leak. Try a new stock sear. It will guarantee that the specs are correct.

[tucson.az.jbreen]

The sear on the left came to me in a minimag tricked out by Palmer's pursuit.
This is the sear I'm primarily using in the x valve set up.

The sear is very old, I don't know how much play it actually saw, the gun was long forgotten when I aqquired it.

So it could be the sear has worn like previously suggested.

Played yesterday all day with very little problems. The gun stuck up only a few times across five hours of play. I degas and regas the marker and it fires on.

"Sticking up" means bolt forward and leaking down barrel.

The sear on the right is from ans gear and was only used briefly in the x valve, and seemed to be more problematic than the old one. It seemed to have a lot play side to side and so I dropped it to the minimag. Appears to work ok with the minimag.

[athomas]

The sear on the left came to me in a minimag tricked out by Palmer's pursuit.
This is the sear I'm primarily using in the x valve set up.

The sear is very old, I don't know how much play it actually saw, the gun was long forgotten when I aqquired it.

So it could be the sear has worn like previously suggested.

Played yesterday all day with very little problems. The gun stuck up only a few times across five hours of play. I degas and regas the marker and it fires on.

"Sticking up" means bolt forward and leaking down barrel.

The sear on the right is from ans gear and was only used briefly in the x valve, and seemed to be more problematic than the old one. It seemed to have a lot play side to side and so I dropped it to the minimag. Appears to work ok with the minimag.

The sear on the left is an original automag sear. The one on the right is the next generation. It is a little lighter so it reacts better. You can check the wear at the lip where it catches the bolt. There should not be any noticable indentation worn on that lip.

[Pudgey51]

may as well re-post this:

I Screen shot this for later use. Thanks!!

[OldSchool_RT]

Hi all -

I recently purchased a L10 kit (finally back in stock - thanks Tim!) for my RT Classic and I am experiencing some issues and looking for some assistance.

Essentially my RT will not fire.

I went through the usual troubleshooting steps, and I was not able to find a carrier that would allow the marker to fire, leaking or not leaking.

(I used the same oring for testing and the gold spring that came with the L10 kit)

Input pressure is 800psi, verified with a temp gauge installed on the body rail port, and as suggested in this thread I turned the velocity up until it started venting out the back - still would not fire.

Also worth noting the trigger pressure was very soft while this was occurring, and often pulling the trigger had no effect.

I removed all the LV10 parts, reinstalled my old bolt + power tube spacer\oring and the gun cycles fine, with the normal trigger pull and RT effect.

This, at least to me, would rule out an on\off issue, but also means I am out of ideas..

Any help and or additional troubleshooting tips would be greatly appreciated!

A.

[vintage]

turn your velocity up and make sure you have a new regulator piston as the old ones can't handle the pressure increase needed for the L10

[Soonersdds]

First thought would be if you have one of the older reg piston assemblies that simply can not be turned up high enough to operate the level X without venting. Possibly try this?

http://www.airgundesigns.com/product-p/000822.htm

[rawbutter]

It should work if you turn up the velocity, regardless of whether you also need a new piston. If it shoots but also leaks out the back after turning up the velocity, then you should upgrade the piston. If it doesn't leak, you're good to go. Well, maybe. I've had regulator pistons that seemed fine after upgrading to Level 10, but then they started leaking after a month or two. So you'll have to wait and see.

[OldSchool_RT]

That makes sense - I will order the new reg piston assembly asap.

Really appreciate the insight everyone!

A.

[Sandman]

Email me directly at AGD if you need some final tweaking...We'll get it going.