** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[HIKARU]

My Level X problems and solutions.

Just posting my personal experience with the LX installation process.

Using ReTro Valve, black hopper right powerfeed body, agd flatline 68/3000 tank. output pressure at 850~900. Velocity unknown after testing (no chrono) since I want all the leaks and misc. problems solved before putting paint through the marker.

-Used 5 line carrier (3 on front then 2 on rear) 2 shims, longest spring. Problem massive leak down the barrel.

-Used 2.5 carrier, 2 shims, longest spring. Problem massive leak down the barrel again.

-used 2 carrier, 2 shims, longest spring. Problem massive leak down the barrel.

The previous three leaks were due to the carrier being too loose around the bolt.

-used 1.5 carrier, 2 shims, longest spring. Problem gun would shoot then stick. STOPPED LEAKING THOUGH!

-used 1.5 carrier, 2 shims, medium spring. Problem gun wouldn't shoot. Solution turned up velocity to unknown amount (no chrono available oops). new result gun would shoot and bounce back with nothing there at lower velocity setting and as i increased it the gun would resume shooting normally and bounce back if i held my squeege in the chamber (down the barrel, haven't tried down the power feed yet). UPDATE gun shoots fine but developed a small leak after about 50 shots. Proposed solution according to an earlier post on this thread it was said that using the next smaller carrier will stop this leak. I have yet to try it. I will reply once I tried it with my final setup.

[Koosh]

What is the easiest way to get the carrriers out of the power tube? mine doesnt want to come out, and I get a small leak down the barrel, so would that be the next size smaller, or larger?

[HIKARU]

response to TheFlamingKoosh is on bottom of post, my update is above.

UPDATE
LX setup: 2 shims, 1.0 carrier, medium spring, lapco big shot barrel, ReTro Valve, BIG BALL paintballs.

STATUS
-Leaks are all gone

-the bolt stuck one time on rapid fire(only within the first 30 shots after i made the above adjustments to LX), but never did it again.

-the Level 10 system is working, I put a dollar bill in it bounced, i put scotch tape on a paintball and put it half way into the chamber fired 2 times, bounced both times (didnt try beyond that since I didn't feel like cleaning up a mess atm). Fired 100 rounds while having inconsistant velocity and on about 4 occasions heard the Level 10 psssht noise in effect.

-the VELOCITY is VERY INCONSISTANT NOW!!! using a radarchron hand held chrono I was getting velocity readings from 249 to 291 and it seemed to jump anywhere within this range every shot. THIS HAS TO BE FIXED!!!!!

Proposed Solution
Reading through some old posts here I see that solutions range from changing the type of paintballs you are shooting, to replacing/cleaning the REG SEAT.

IF ANYBODY KNOWS ANY SOLID SOLUTION TO THIS INCONSISTANT VELOCITY ISSUE PLEASE POST AND PLEASE PM ME.

NOTE: My friend with a EMAG w/LX installed (snakestangs old emag) gets VERY CONSISTANT VELOCITY when we used the same radarchron hand held chronograph his readings ranged from 183-188. So its not the chronograph..

TheFlamingKoosh,

Since I dont have a dental pick, I improvised and used a paperclip and bent one end with a pair of pliers (note: bent on the extreme end of the paperclip so you can have a tiny hook, having too large of a hook will make you unable to get into the carrier hole, ok that didnt sound good but thats how it works).

If your leaking down the barrel I would suggest changing your carrier to the next smaller size.

[Snewk]

Easy way to get the carriers out!

Use your field strip screw, set it into the powertube and into the carrier, turn it to the right to kind of "thread" it into the carrier and simply pull. Works like a charm if you don't have dental picks or some other kind of picks. Wal-Mart sells a really nice set of Stanley picks for around four dollars.

[HIKARU]

save money

paperclip, bent with plier... works like a charm. dont use the cheapo flimsy paperclip u need the average size ones.. not the heavy duty kind either.

[Duke Henry]

I probably have missed it looking through the 7 pages, so I do apologize if this has already been asked.

I have slapped in my LX into my RT Pro. I am using 2 shims and the 1.5 carrier.

Anyway, I am noticing two things.

1. When I fire, I notice that the bolt seems to return too far back. When I let go of my trigger after firing, the bolt seems to move forward just a pinch and when doing so gives a little hiss. Should I remove a shim?

2. This could be related, but right now I am sitting around the 295-310 FPS range. Should I continue to chrony the gun, and fire as much as possible to break in the o-ring and perhaps this will allow me to drop my velocity a bit? Right now, if I drop it down any farther the gun will not do anything.

Thanks

[BlackVCG]

The bolt is suppose to move a little bit forward when you release the trigger. If it constantly leaks or lets out a little hiss and then stops, then you have it set right at the point that the o-ring is barely sealing the vent hole in the bolt piston. Remove a shim and it should be good.

Are you using the longest spring? If so, then put in the middle one so that it will start operating at a lower velocity and be more reliable up around 290fps. It needs to get a bunch of cycles to break in the o-ring. Make sure it's oiled too.

[Duke Henry]

Right now I am using the middle spring (cut spring). Just to see, I will remove one shim and see how that works.

If I put in the longer spring, would that make my velocity problem worse?

Also, temperature it is quite cool out right now. Just above freezing, around 5 degrees C. So, somewhere in the 40's in F. Thanks

[Edit: I just noticed that I never removed the little plastic bumper on my assembly. Am I supposed to keep it on, or remove it and store it with my old bolt? Just curious...]

[Update: I put in the shortest spring and am able to drop below 300. Right now I am running around 270-290 FPS. There are some spikes in the range, and so I will have to fine tune my velocity setting when I can get more paint.

Now, I can put my squeegie up near the bolt, and the bolt will tap it, and then reset. But, I have a feeling that it is still hitting a bit too hard. I put a ball halfway into the port, and it chopped the ball. Now, I would imagine that putting in a longer spring would fix the chopping problem. However, then I do not think I will be able to chrony below 300 again.

When I dropped down to 1 shim, I had leaks and it was inconsistent all over the place. When adding another shim my velocity is much more consistent. However, I could not get it below 300 using the middle spring. When I put in the shortest spring, I could go below 300.

Any ideas? Thanks]

[lillfroboy]

take it off

[Duke Henry]

Once I get the SCUBA filled again today and get more paint I will remove the rubber bushing, and put the middle spring back on and try again.

Thanks

[HIKARU]

PROBLEMS SOLVED!!!

UPDATE
LX setup: 2 shims, 1.0 carrier, shortest spring, lapco big shot barrel, ReTro Valve, MARBALLIZER paintballs.

air system: AGD Flatline 68/3000, currently adjusted to 850~900 psi output.

STATUS

-No leaks

-Haven't done a rapid fire test yet to check for bolt stick.

-Consistant velocity, 6 shots, individually loaded results:

283
289
286
285
268
283

Odd how the 268 got there. I tested another 6 shots individually loaded and got results ranging from 283-290. Close enough for me! Previous chronograph results ranged from 249-291.

-Scotch taped a MARBALLIZER paintball and lowered it half way into the chamber and fired (once). Result was the expected bounce back of the bolt.

-Put finger inside chamber and fired, result again was the expected bounce back. I'm assuming Level 10 functions are all there.
Solution
In my previous post I mentioned that I was experiencing inconsistant velocity after installing Level 10. I read a more recent post regarding this issue and somebody proposed that changing over to the shortest spring alleviates this.

In my previous post I was testing using the medium spring and since then I have changed the spring to the shortest spring size and couldn't be happier with the results.

History
-ReTro valve without Level 10 - Shooting consistantly, 6fps variance at most (example 283-289).

-Installed Level 10, 2 shims, 1.5 carrier, medium spring - Everything was ok until I fired about 50 times a minor leak developed down the barrel. Due to the leak I didn't check velocity.

-Adjusted Level 10, 2 shims, 1.0 carrier, medium spring - The smaller carrier stopped the leak. Chronographed the gun and had very inconsistant results 249-291 fps.

-Adjusted Level 10, 2 shims, 1.0 carrier, shortest spring -
Chronographed the gun and had very CONSISTANT velocity results in the 283-289 range.

Judging from my history I started with what I presumed to be a clean ReTro valve since it was shooting consistantly before the Level 10 installation. I did have a lingering thought that perhaps my valve became dirty or otherwise mucked up in the proccess of playing before I installed Level 10, or perhaps in the installation proccess itself (I find this hard but you can never be too sure).

I hope this information can be of assistance to anybody else, I thank the AO forum members for all their valuable insight to the various dillemas associated with the Level 10 installation.

I will field test this in speedball this weekend will post performance results.

[Duke Henry]

Congrats Hikaru! I look to have mine running as well as you. It is also good to hear of something using the shortest spring, and getting it to work so well. I was afraid it would still be too hard on the paint.

Definately encouraging!

[BlackVCG]

Duke- You're talking about the clear/yellowish bumper that goes on the valve and the bolt comes back and hits that, right? If so DO NOT remove it. That must be there, otherwise you'll end up breaking your bolt or powertube.

[Koosh]

Ok, here is my problem...

Got and installed the level 10 in my SFL E-Mag. Thw 2 carrier leaked a little, so I went down to the 1.5. Installed it with 2 shims, everything worked fine. I thought that the carrier/bolt was a little tight, but the next one up leaked, so I guess that is what I have to do.

Everything worked great. While playing around with it, (using the Cut spring) it stopped on everthing, fingers, paintballs, just like the level 10 is supposed to.

When I went to use it in a game however, it all changed. It fired fine for about 10 shots... then I got the level 10 PFFFT noise, and the next shot broke. I am assuming that it pushed a ball in the barrel but didn't fire it, the next one fired and broke both of them. At the time however, I assumed it was a fluke, cleaned everything out and went to start the first game. fired another 20ish shots, same thing happened... I didn't bring a squeegee on the feild because I had so much faith in the level 10... long story short: I continued breaking balls like mad the entire day.

About half way through, I completey took my gun apart, and added another shim. With that, the problem went away mostly... I broke like one in 200 balls, instead of one in 20 like I was. There was alot of paint goo all around the breech, so I am assuming that that could have caused the break.

I am out of paint and air for a while, but does my current setup sound good? I mean, do you think that fixed the problem?

thanks guys...

[HIKARU]

need a bit more info.

TheFlamingKoosh,

This is just my opinion.

I broke like one in 200 balls, instead of one in 20 like I was.

That is totally unacceptable for an emag with Level 10. I'm sure you know this . Lets try to fix the problem shall we?

-What is your output pressure set to?

-What velocity range are you firing in, example: 283-289 fps.

-Was your gun firing consistantly (velocity wise) prior to the Level 10 installation.

-Is the cut side of the cut spring facing towards the valve?