esencials for mag with autoresponse?

[AkumA]

(sorry, im kinda new around here)

i'll be aquiring a mag with an autoresponce frame soon, but there are a few things that needs to be done to the mag first. the owner says that the orings may need to be replaced since there is a slight leak that occurs once in awhile. i plan on getting a mag parts kit (first aid kit, or whatever its called), unless its not nessesary.

second, are the stock parts ok? i've read on the forums that it WILL wear out aftermarket bolts. i do plan on getting a lvl 10, but i watched a video of Tom K using an autoresponce with a gravity hopper, and he didn't chop any balls. i will be using a 12v rev. will the lvl 10 wear out a lot faster, and is it really worth it with the autoresponce?

and lastly, the reg. i read somewhere (can't remember) that the reason why AGD made the retro valve is bc they had shoot downs from the fastness of the autoresponce (i may be wrong). will a x valve work with the autoresponce? would it be worth it?

now im not the kind of guy that plans on lighting up a player. i will however take advantage of tagging a player with 2 shots with the autoresponce mechanism. so shooting fast isn't my style. but im sure i'll get the occational urge to see how much i can pump out at the chrono's.

thats about it. a few questions and a breif summary of my playing style.

[AkumA]

anyone?

[Clockwork_Orange]

The Lvl 10 is the best product you can get for the RT (for now!:)). RT prevents the mag from having shoot down, because of it's quick recharge unlike the classic valve... The Lvl 10 and RT are a deadly combination. Be prepared to hear complaints from players with electros that are gonna try and bunker you (and I do mean try)and be surprised to see that you can keep up or even out shoot them; they're gonna swear your mag is on full auto (It happens to me all the time!).

As for the xvalve, It's an all aluminum Retro valve with the Lvl 10 already installed. Same performance just lighter valve with Lvl 10 installed!

The Retro valve, xvalve and Lvl 10 are definetly worth the money. I guarantee you, you will not regret getting them.




Upgrade your grey matter 'cause 1 day it may matter!!!

[Clockwork_Orange]

It's gonna take you an extremely long time to wear out the Lvl 10, so don't worry about it wearing out! ADG produces high quality performance unlike other companies...

[sneakyhacker420]

hes not talking about a retromag, he's talking about a mag with the old skool autoresponse trigger frame which fires once on the pull and once on the return of the trigger


unfortunately, the level 10 is not compatible with this trigger frame


my best advice for you would be to dump the AR frame and buy an AGD intelliframe, a level 10 kit, and possibly a retro or x-valve if you can afford it



not to mention that the autoresponse trigger is not tourney legal, and most field only allow semi-auto... and the AR frame is not considered semi-automatic


and if, by chance, you did put the AR frame on an x-valve, you would not be able to experience the reactive trigger of the rt/x-valve because the trigger rod doesnt come in contact with the trigger in the autoresponse frame

[Clockwork_Orange]

I misread what you said AkumA, about the autoresponse frame. Wow, I completely forgot about that frame (talk about old school and ugly; I can't stand that frame)... Get rid of that thing! You're a lot better off with an AGD Intelliframe.

[AkumA]

DOH! well thanks atleast for responding.

so this thing is really that bad? it looks like a lot of fun. well i sent off the money order for a used mag with it, so oh well. i'll try it out a couple of times, and prehaps sell it for an intelli.

btw, can i use an intelliframe with an RT and get the reactive trigger action? or is that frame basicly an electro frame?

[Clockwork_Orange]

Akuma Checkout this link for the Intelliframe...

http://store.airgun.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=17&Product_ID=11&CATID=5

[AkumA]

ok, i think i understand the intelliframe now.

but are there any possitive sides to the autoresponse frame?

i read on g3pb.com's autores. internal transplant into a benchmark frame (http://g3pb.com/z-body.html). plus he's using a retro valve and (?) a RT Z-valve. how is this?

[sneakyhacker420]

an RT z-valve is a classic valve with one of g3pb's other crock-of-s*** upgrades, the reactor valve, a new on/off piece


the only positive side is that you can fire twice with one cycle of the trigger... if a field allows it :o


get rid of it, or sell it to me, i enjoy collecting vintage paintball stuff :)

[Tyril]

Ok, I've got one and the good news is that level 10 is actually compatable with the old school AR frame. The difficulty lies in its tuning. In the AR frame, the major problem I've so far encountered is the fact that its tolerences aren't all that good. The two times the frame fires, on pull and release, involve the sear (to activate the on/off) moving up different amounts. So much so that the difference is clearly visible by just looking down the tube.

Level 10 installed correctly, but needs (at least on my mag) to be at its most 'fail-safe' mode: an ungodly small carrier and at most one shim. I'm either using the 0 or .5 carrier: anything else gives me a decent bit of leaking. Now, this unfortunately, means that the bolt is going to have a hell of a lot of friction, so the input pressure on the mag regulator must be increased in order to fire 280 fps. On my mag, and this might not be the case of everyone, I needed to turn my input pressure up to the point where there is a very small leak out the rear hole. This isn't damaging in any way, but eats up a lot of air.

About shootdown. The AR trigger, when properly installed, is one scary mofo =) I have clocked myself dryfiring at 17.5 bps before (sound clip/.wav editor), on a classic valve. Now, supposedly, this is fast enough to bring about a bit of shootdown, but I've never really noticed this to be the case. What I have noticed, due to the not all that constant pressure, that occationally the Level 10 will activate when it doesn't need to: you will 'pufft' a blank. This most often occurs on the first shot in a string, and truely isn't that annoying.

With the level 10 at the amount of friction it has, it is theoretically possible to chop a ball, but this will most likely not be the case. With a 12v w/xboard powerfed hopper, I have chopped two balls in my last 4000 rounds, paint at least 10 months old: and one occurred because the ball physically did not fit into the breach =) I did a test, and held a ball halfway into the breach, and opened up on it. The ball finally broke on the 5th cycle of the trigger: level 10 activated each other time, and only the cumulative effect was enough to cause breakage.

I wish you best of luck in your mag'ing, if you want any further info, feel free to PM me.

-mike

[Koosh]

I agree with Tyril on most points...

I have an Autoresponse Classic LX valve too... Although I don't seem to be having the problems he did...

Mine is set up with the 1 carrier, and seems to work fine. The 1.5 worked for a while, but developed a small leak, I guess that was normal for LX tuning though.

I would DEFINATELY reccomend keeping the AR frame. The intelliframe would be great if you wanted to try out a tourney or something, but for everyday rec play, the Auto-Resonse will rule!

I'm not as fast as Tyril, I've "only" clocked myself at 13 bps for the valve. But for anyone with a fully mechanical gun, the 13 and 17 bps tyil can get to wll flat out RULE!

The downside to the AR frame is the fact that you have to pull the thing about 1/4 mile with a weight of about 40 pounds to fire it! Ok, so not that bad, but compared to other guns, the AR frame will have a redicusly heavy and long pull... Tippmann and Spyder might have a better pull. But after you get used to it, and get in a rhythm the frame will simply SING with the paint you send through it.

and yes you can get a retro/ X valve for the AR frame, but try the classic first... it isn't as bad as everyone says it is...

[Tyril]

Hmmm... Koosh, I wonder. If you were to take off the valve, and look into the rear of the body tube while pulling the AR trigger, do you notice any difference in how far the on/off lever moves up on the pull and the release? I've never really seen any other person with an AR frame, and I've thought of late that my frame might be in some way out of normal tolerances. This could be causing the tuning problems I've been having.

Thanks!

-mike

[Koosh]

Hrmm..

I never noticed that before, but when I looked, the part that holds the bolt comes up more on the "pull" then it does on the "release" but the part that pushes the on/off comes up the same on both times...

Now that I think about it I do have some problems with LX... Sometime when it stops on a ball it will just vent if I hold the trigger back, but as soon as I let it go again it resets normal... I've kinda come to accept that as the normal way of operation, even if it SHOULD reset if I hold the trigger back.

Nothing major, just some small things that piss me off

[Tyril]

Hmmmm... I haven't had that particular problem, but it sounds around the line of ones I've experienced. =)

Us folks are few and far between: AR frames are really becoming a rarity. How sad that such a fun idea would fall to the wayside in the battle of today's electros.


One day I hope to put together the definitive AR frame FAQ, just need one of those fancy digital cameras =)
Do you know of any sites that exist now containing info about 'em?

Thanks!

-mike