My Pneumatic Emag idea!!! Need Inquiries

[RavishingEddie]

Ok so last night I had a dream that my Emag was pneumatic. So after all day of research and tons of reading I think this might be ground breaking. Why? Because it might solve the 18volt to 9 volts conversion problem for Emags and upgrade to a E/P function instead of a E/M function with the turn of the emag switch. Here is my idea. I would use a set up similar to any Pneumag except that when the Emag is on E mode the Hall sensor would trip the push noid to push the MSV and cause the MPA to trip the sear.
In mechanical mode or should I say P mode I would have the sear pin turned around and screwed onto the trigger itself with a tap I might have someone else do. I would make it short enough to not hit the MSV on Emode but make full contact when on P mode.
Hopefully this will solve the long 9 volt emag problem while still keeping the stock board with Xmod that I love so much. All I need right now is a good push noid for me to start it.
As many of you also know there is very little force required to push the MSV compared to the actual sear like Dmags. Because of this I am assuming I would not need a Capacitor since very little force would be needed.

[TippmannGuy]

IT's a lot stuff to try and fit in the frame of the e-mag. I know others have looked at doing this to there e-mag but ultmiately decide there isn't enough room to make it work.
I know someone would have done it if there was mini-morlock boards available. But Without the extra small board to make more room the project was shelved.

Here's a link to a site with a TON of info that should help. www.bigevilonline.com

As far as my input I wouldn't use the MSV as a switch I'd keep the hall sensor. Lose the MPA-3 for a Pnemu push/pull ram to replace the electronic noid that needs all the juice 18v can provide. Keeping it as close to unmodified as possible. Putting the 9 v into the front batt compartment is fine. You'd also need to add a hump noid which could be in the front batt housing as well.The hybrid mode and mech mode would no longer work though. It'd strictly be an electro pnemu

Good Luck and keep us posted

[RavishingEddie]

Well I was not looking to remove the Hall sensor. It would be used to send the signal to the board which would in turn send the voltage to the noid. The noid would then push the MSV which would activate the Pneumatics. I also thought it sounded like too much things going but activating the noid should be instant. The activation of the noid should also be instant, but I am assuming it would of built up a delay in m/s by now. My only question then is how instantaneous is a pneumatic system and what is the ceiling ROF it can hit assuming finger speed was not a factor.

[y0da900]

Doesn't the E-mag use a pull type solenoid? You would need to either use a different solenoid, or make some sort of lever or bracket for it to push on the valve.

[wjr]

I'm trying to figure this out. The solenoid pushes the msv-2? That sounds like it might be overly complicated.

Now here's what I think would be awesome. Normal emag in E-mode, Pneumag in Mech mode.

[RavishingEddie]

I'm trying to figure this out. The solenoid pushes the msv-2? That sounds like it might be overly complicated.

Now here's what I think would be awesome. Normal emag in E-mode, Pneumag in Mech mode.

Yes that is the same thing that I thought at first, but there is no way for me to install a Pneumatic system with the original Emag internals. Yet I also don't want to get rid of the original board. Xmod rocks. So my only option is to replace the Emag sear and solenoid and use that available space for the set up.

[FinchMan]

a while back I though of connecting the output of a 3-way solenoid to the exhaust of the msv2. Or if the msv-2 doesn't have a tapped exhaust port, hook the output of the msv-2 to the exhaust port on a 3-way solenoid.

Assume the 3-way is connected to the exhaust of the msv-2.
In mech mode, the trigger activates the msv-2, and upon return the gas flows through the exhaust back through the 3-way output to the 3-way exhaust.

In E-mode, the trigger activates the HES and is stopped by a safety-like mechanism before it activates the msv-2. The solenoid sends gas through the msv-2's exhaust to the msv-2's output and to the mpa-3. When the solenoid vents the gas vents through the msv-2 to the solenoid vent (a QEV should be used on the mpa3).


A little safety-like mechanism limits rearward travel when in E-mode, and is just pushed left/right for mech mode. Maybe a really intricate mechanism can be designed to limit the forward travel in mech mode and the back travel in E-mode.

[RavishingEddie]

Hey Finchman I really like your idea. I understand that you are bypassing the Input of the MSV and using the Exhaust for the input and Exhaust instead. When the MSV exhausts it will exhaust to the Input of the Noid which will exhaust through the noids exhaust. I get it but my question is:

Will the noid provide constant air pressure to the MSV like the reg does in a standard Pneumag?
Does it need that?
Will using the same line for input and exhaust cause a problem in recharge or discharge?

As far as the trigger is concerned you don't need to do anything because E mode does not let the trigger go all the way back and it is even adjustable. My plan is to turn the sear pin around and attaching it to the tunablade trigger and adjusting it in a way that makes it too short to trigger the MSV on E mode but just the right size to trigger the MSV on Mech mode.

Here is the picture of what I think your set up looks like. Please let me know if I am wrong.

[FinchMan]

Hey Finchman I really like your idea. I understand that you are bypassing the Input of the MSV and using the Exhaust for the input and Exhaust instead. When the MSV exhausts it will exhaust to the Input of the Noid which will exhaust through the noids exhaust. I get it but my question is:

Will the noid provide constant air pressure to the MSV like the reg does in a standard Pneumag?
Does it need that?
Will using the same line for input and exhaust cause a problem in recharge or discharge?

As far as the trigger is concerned you don't need to do anything because E mode does not let the trigger go all the way back and it is even adjustable. My plan is to turn the sear pin around and attaching it to the tunablade trigger and adjusting it in a way that makes it too short to trigger the MSV on E mode but just the right size to trigger the MSV on Mech mode.

Here is the picture of what I think your set up looks like. Please let me know if I am wrong.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...totypeidea.gif

it would look like this:


When in mech mode, the output of the noid is an exhaust path (seems like you get that).

I see here: http://www.fabco-air.com/pdf/Sec_13.pdf(page5) that the msv-2's exhaust port is not tapped, so instead you'll need to feed the msv-2's output into the exhaust port on the noid... like the 2nd setup I mentioned earlier.

[Pneumagger]

#1) The msv exhaust port isn't tapped -and- it exhausts from the top, side, & stem. It just won't work. Find a new 3 way.

#2) Technically, there is no such thing as a "push solenoid". That would imply your using an electromagnet to repel.

#3) over enginneered? ... not at all

/tippmanngut's response was very feasable - and when I ever get around to it someday... that I what I'm doing for Atach.

[y0da900]

#2) Technically, there is no such thing as a "push solenoid". That would imply your using an electromagnet to repel.

They can push just fine if you have a magnetic core instead of just a ferromagnetic one. Point taken though, so let me rephrase. Doesn't the E-Mag use a solenoid that, when energized, the rod it is attached to moves in a fashion that results in the end of said rod being in a position closer to the solenoid mounting point than in it's initial un-energized state. In effect, pulling the rod towards the fixed mounting point used for reference.

[BigEvil]

Here's my plan...



Im going to gut the electronics from the emag frame and replace them with a new board, humphries 3 or 4 way noid and dual acting ram.

I have the noid and ram spec'd out... and of course as i have been for the last 2 years.. and waiting on a suitable board to use.

The benafits will be:
-9v operation (But I will just keep the 18v battery and probably never again have to recharge it ever lol j/k- but the stock battery will go on for what seems like forever)

-faster cycling speeds

-no magnetic interference from the noid effecting the HES

-POSSIBLY lower operartion pressure. The on/off pin will no longer be needed to 'reset' the sear. The ram will both pull and push, so theoretically the on/off pin can move with less input pressure. (Thus, allowing the gun to go deeper into the tank.

-This set up should work in Hybrid mode, but I doubt mech mode. Ever try to move the back block on an autococker when its pressurized? Same thing here.

-Any new board will have the added benafit of modern firing modes and adjustments, ect.. ect.

Ive been sitting with my thumb up my rear-end on this one for like 2 years waiting for TAG or KM2 or SOMEONE to make a new universal controller boars ala the minimorlock. Looks like APE is going to be the winner in that race with the new Rampage Uniboard. I will just keep waiting to see...

Some people say to just use a T-board for my DIY applications.. I have never been a big fan of them, although Scenario Dreams is a much better company than TAG has been... BUT once you use a predator-coded board you never go back.

[y0da900]

Why a dual acting ram? Fewer hoses to deal with in a single acting, and lower air consumption.

[BigEvil]

Why a dual acting ram? Fewer hoses to deal with in a single acting, and lower air consumption.

-POSSIBLY lower operartion pressure. The on/off pin will no longer be needed to 'reset' the sear. The ram will both pull and push, so theoretically the on/off pin can move with less input pressure. (Thus, allowing the gun to go deeper into the tank.

[y0da900]

-POSSIBLY lower operartion pressure. The on/off pin will no longer be needed to 'reset' the sear. The ram will both pull and push, so theoretically the on/off pin can move with less input pressure. (Thus, allowing the gun to go deeper into the tank.

I got that part, but most single acting rams have an internal spring that returns it for you, so it would still be able to return indepently of any input from the on-off pin.