PTP going after Brass Eagle

[Beemer]

Back on topic

This thread is not about copyrights.

The issue was taken care of so drop it already. Dont copy and paste unless you have permission. Use a link. Plain and simple. Thanks for the heads up Rabid.

Any more off topic posts will be removed. Carry on.

[Foxworthy]

This thread is not about copyrights.

The issue was taken care of so drop it already. Dont copy and paste unless you have permission. Use a link. Plain and simple. Thanks for the heads up Rabid.

Any more off topic posts will be removed. Carry on.

Sorry, please delete my last post. I was typing it up before you posted and didn't see it. Sorry.

[Chronobreak]

im curious to see how this all settles out.

it seems like legalities are being exchanged between nearly every paintball company these days.

alot of people are gonna be surprised what the sport is like in 08, well those that have been around for a while.

[rabidchihauhau]

???

are you suggesting you know something or are you saying that folks will be surprised at where it goes in general?

Litigation in business is a common thing - most folks don't get to see a tenth of it publicly.

Consider that there are entire legal firms who's business is arbitrating disputes between companies, others who's business is handling business licensing issues.

Part of the issue is a general cultural bias AGAINST lawyers and things legal. We've been conditioned to think of lawyers as money-grubbing trouble makers and if you have to resort to a law suit, there must be something wrong with you, your business, etc.

In reality, the courts were established for the purpose of having a supposedly impartial third-party resolve differences that couldn't be handled in any other way.

Look at contracts; doing business on trust and a handshake is admirable and honorable and desireable. But what happens when unanticipated issues arise and the handshaking parties disagree on how to interpret them?

You both could go ask 'Bob', but its likely that one of you will not like Bob's decisions...

What are you supposed to do when someone signs a contract and then doesn't honor it? Say oh well and walk away from money, hard work, etc? Its like having a brother or sister who borrows money and then refuses to pay it back. Eventually you either have to beat them up or go to mom and dad...

[Chronobreak]

???

are you suggesting you know something or are you saying that folks will be surprised at where it goes in general?

Litigation in business is a common thing - most folks don't get to see a tenth of it publicly.

...

possibly both?

look at the changes in the last year or two alone, its not hard to figure out or notice paintball has left the hands of the people who care about it and is now in the hands of those that would rather have you buy your halo, paint, and air at wal-mart isntead of the local proshop thats been supporting the local community for years.

Its also a weird thing you mention that, i think its odd that in paintball lawsuits and litigations are often made public and sometimes to try and make a company appear evil, or more evil than they really are.

as per BE and PTP, i dont know anything in particular other than what has been said publicly for the most part. So im just waiting to see what happens, if anything like everyone else.

[edweird]

ugh, it makes me sick that the biggest news in paintball revolves around happenings in court rooms.

I can see the future of TK advice threads:

Q: "how do I become successful in the paintball industry?"
A: "study patent and intellectual property law kiddo."

[rabidchihauhau]

chrono,

ok. I don't see any big changes coming other than the continuation of the downward spiral of the industry. The big investment firms obviously have no interest in self-promoting their products. It will become yet another 'dead' sport; kids will get their parents to buy them cheap gear for the holidays, they'll play for a short while and then move on to the next fad.

fields and stores devoted to paintball will continue to erode.

if anything survives big time, it will be scenario ball - but that will only continue so long as 'war' is a part of our everyday. the minute that we pull out of Iraq, its going to become a 'bad' thing to play army in the woods once more. there will come the inevitable backlash against all things military. if you collect GI Joes, you better get your stuff now...

anyone seen any big sponsorship deals since Ollie Langs? nope... wonder if he's going to get renewed...?

edweird - you react to that like its a bad thing. its not. its fundamental to business that you know and understand the legal landscape. its only when you don't that you feel victimized by it. It is literally just like knowing the rules for playing. if you don't know that splatter doesn't count, you're going to feel ripped off on the field when that guy isn't out.

good paintball companies MUST innovate and IP is an essential part of that. The landscape itself is not bad - its how people/companies use it that makes that determination and, when it comes right down to it, the job of a company is to maximize its return and take every advantage that it can from the marketplace. Again, like knowing the rules. If the rules say hits don't count unless the ref calls you, teams that leave the field with no ref check are handicapping themselves. The other team is not cheating when it plays by the rules. The way to get a handle on that kind of situation is to be involved with the rules writing (law) or to have someone read the rules, analyze them, and then advise you on what it means (lawyers).

[edweird]

of course I react like it is a bad thing. If corp's like SP, and PTP put their creative efforts into putting products on the market as hard as they work on keeping lawyers in the courtroom defending their IP, I wouldnt give a damn.

product R&D and subsequent release is taking a backdoor to protecting IP. And frankly that is a shame.

/sadly I think the money is in the IP suits, rather than development.

[RogueFactor]

rabidchihauhau:

Speaking of litigation...

How did things ever end up turning out with Richmond Italia, and your legal proceedings regarding your patent #6,251,033 ?

Were you successful? Will we be seeing an exclusive 68caliber.com announcement regarding your patent and these proceedings soon?

[rabidchihauhau]

Rogue,

as much as I'd like to say yes, the answer is no. I was unable to pursue it for lack of funds.

They're version of it is dying anyways as it was designed to maximize profit as opposed to creating a sport...

Edweird.

Look at what you're saying

"If corp's like SP, and PTP put their creative efforts into putting products on the market as hard as they work on keeping lawyers in the courtroom defending their IP..."

IP IS the creative effort. You get money for your creative effort(s) by marketing and selling it. If you do not have the control(s) offered by IP, you make no sales, because others have copied and sell it for less.

Very very simple: if a design company can't make back their investment and then some, they stop designing new stuff...

What you said was the functional equivalent of: if retailers put their efforts into selling product instead of going after shoplifters, they'd have more product on the shelves to sell..."

[Lohman446]

Paintball is not altruistic - saving the world, some child, whatever is not a goal of design.

You introduce new products because you A) Love the game or B) see it as profitable. At one point those who released products loved the game (yes, they were still able to see profit). The goal was not maximizing profits.

We whined... we wanted big business.... we wanted cheaper paint, bigger tournaments, more money. We followed the promises of it.

We got it. Now companies design for profitability. Protecting IP becomes vitally important when trying to maximize profit. Without it there cannot be (in a money driven sport) nearly as much R&D. We got what we wanted... and the grass is greener on the other side.

[rabidchihauhau]

One reason why folks in paintball see more litigation going on is because the press is one inexpensive way for the small company to exert pressure on the big company. Large companies that have an image to maintain and who rely on their reputation(s) to keep doing business with other large companies do not like having their dirty laundry aired in public - especially when they are on the wrong side of the litigation equation.

Such things make other suppliers and purchasers wonder if they are going to be treated the same way; make them wonder if their checks are going to cash, if the product they ordered is going to arrive on time, if its going to be quality or some sub-standard crap; when it comes to contract negotions, if a company has a history of not honoring contracts, it makes it difficult for them to get others to agree to enter into a contractual agreement - or they end up having to negotiate less favorable terms because of what others have heard about them.

Of course, the smartest way to deal with such things is to take your lumps and correct the problem...

[Chronobreak]

[QUOTE=rabidchihauhau]chrono,

ok. I don't see any big changes coming other than the continuation of the downward spiral of the industry. The big investment firms obviously have no interest in self-promoting their products. It will become yet another 'dead' sport; kids will get their parents to buy them cheap gear for the holidays, they'll play for a short while and then move on to the next fad.

fields and stores devoted to paintball will continue to erode.

if anything survives big time, it will be scenario ball - but that will only continue so long as 'war' is a part of our everyday. the minute that we pull out of Iraq, its going to become a 'bad' thing to play army in the woods once more. there will come the inevitable backlash against all things military. if you collect GI Joes, you better get your stuff now...

anyone seen any big sponsorship deals since Ollie Langs? nope... wonder if he's going to get renewed...?

/[QUOTE]

ide consider the increased rate of decline in the sport pretty big news, the high end marker market also doesnt or wont translate well to the mass market wal-mart type dsitribution system very well or at all if you ask me

i guess time will tell, but if you ask me the sprot ahs turned for the worse in an irreversible way. Sad to say alot of players ,field owners, and shop owners(those that are left) wont see it coming

i guess thats a convo for a seprate topic though.

[nathanjones008]

we are going to be in iraq for a while.

[billmi]

Let's go over it one more time:

the LINK is ok and legal.

COPYING the entire article is copyright INFRINGEMENT.

No, it's just copying an article without the owner's permission that is infringement.

Not too long ago, a user on WARPIG.com pulled and posted a full article from 68caliber.com. Being a respector of copyright, I deleted the post, and left the follow-up post that provided a link to the article.

The user who posted said that it was with permission, and that Dale Ford (owner of 68 Caliber.com) allows reposting of full articles, so long as 68caliber.com is credited as the source. Dale Ford confirmed to my by e-mail that this is indeed his policy.