What style of trigger do you prefer?

[RogueFactor]

first off... the ego trigger system is incredible. I like micro switches but optics with a magnetic return will always be my fav. Forgive me but the Hall sensor never had a well enough defined activation point for me.

Doh. Your going to overload him!

Weve now gotten into a whole 'nother series of sets.

The one set above my highest classification(since i only make mechanical triggers) is Electro vs. Mech Triggers. Youve now given a subset of Electro Triggers(type of activation): Micro Switch vs. Optics vs. Hall Effect.

But on track with this thread...
I like a metal slight single fwd curve with a high gloss finish. Carbon fiber and delrin triggers never did it for me. Then anything with a dust finish just sucks. too much grip on the trigger for rake'ing it.

Youve also gotten further into subsets of all triggers: Materials they are made out of: Carbon Fiber vs. Delrin vs. Aluminum. And yet another subset of Aluminum Triggers: Gloss vs Dust.

[RogueFactor]

Maybe I should also be asking....who has triggers for the Mag...

I see AGD,RPG and Tuna.....are there others (that are in still in production) ??

I make triggers for mech AGD frames. Tuna makes triggers for the E-mag. AGD makes stock triggers for both.

[MoeMag]

Okay so my mind is wandering with a few beers behind the keyboard... I was still thinking about the g-force p frame trigger thing.

so yeah... I like my CF single trigger the best. I actually like it on my x-valve (and my classic cause its snappy) because its a great match with my valve for going reactive.

but...

here is a mag trigger you probably missed...

[Anjin3515]

A:B: By the way, the OP did NOT specifically say he was looking for an AGD trigger. He gave AGD triggers as examples, but he does not specifically indicate he is looking strictly for AGD triggers.

C: We are not talking about the sense "feel" but "trigger feel" -- the sum total of the physical, mechanical properties of a particular trigger in relation to activating it. This includes trigger geometry, pull weight, sideplay, etc. all very tangible and objectively measurable. It is a property of the trigger and/or the marker, not the sense of the person touching it.

A: No matter what the physical differences are....the way each of us will interpret these is subjective....yes there are real world objective things you can measure about a trigger...but even with these objective points people will individually feel different about each trigger....so for me at least I don't care about the physical difference....I want to know what the majority subjectively felt was their preference.....

B: That was an over site and mistake on my part....I had thought being on a Mag forum and using Mag triggers as reference with each choice would get across I was looking for a Mag trigger preference. I was mistaken in this and in the future will try to be more clear.

C: To me "feel" is preference. As in...this feels good, this feels uncomfortable....these are subjective statements. I don't think...and maybe I am wrong...but I don't think anyone is thinking about trigger geometry and pull weight when they pick up a gun and pull the trigger.....they are simply thinking...this "feels" good or this "feels" bad. Now..later on if they want to dive into why it might feel one way or another they may figure out it was the trigger geometry or pull weight...what I am trying to get at is what everyones preference is.

Yes as you said "This includes trigger geometry, pull weight, sideplay, etc. all very tangible and objectively measurable. It is a property of the trigger and/or the marker, not the sense of the person touching it." It may be a property of the trigger....but as i stated above...each person will interpret these differently...allow me an example. Car "X" can go 0-60 in 7 seconds....you can measure this...it is objective. It is a property of the car. However....you may "feel" that this is slow acceleration...I may "feel" it is adequate acceleration...Bill Shatner may feel it is too fast. Our sense of acceleration and how it feels were all different, and all correct, no matter the measurable property of the car. Hope that makes sense....its late and I dont know if it makes sense.....

I do see where you are coming from. But for me...I just want the final preference of this community about how they as individuals "feel" about different triggers.... I mean different MAG triggers (see I almost did it again)



WOW...all this over a little poll about triggers.... ....errr a poll about MAG triggers I mean......

[RogueFactor]

We are not talking about the sense "feel" but "trigger feel" -- the sum total of the physical, mechanical properties of a particular trigger in relation to activating it. This includes trigger geometry, pull weight, sideplay, etc. all very tangible and objectively measurable. It is a property of the trigger and/or the marker, not the sense of the person touching it.

And all those properties are perceived by the user individually. Which is "feel". And subjective. Feel, having been the premise of your original statement quoted in small print below.

Whose classifications are these? Yours? What do you consider an "edge"? I define it as a curve along which a finger is meant to actuate the trigger. Blade triggers have one (convex or concave), wave/scythe triggers have two (convex and concave), as do double triggers (concave and concave).

Classifications of a manufacturer, who makes and sells these things daily. Of all styles.

The edge of a trigger is where the top surface and the side surface meet. If that edge has no hump, its a single edge and considered a blade trigger. If there is a hump in that edge, it is double-edged and considered a double trigger. This was made clear in my previous posts.


Those tangible properties mean nothing outside the context of a user. Without the subjectiveness, its merely a piece of material. That is a distractive argument though. I digress...

Your very first statement relative to this conversation was:

There is certainly enough difference in feel to make lumping them together undesirable for the purposes of a poll like this. The wave type triggers move the point of contact a lot further out toward the middle finger.

So you started with the difference in feel. And now have changed your premise to being a matter of 'tangible properties'. Which was not your original position, and as youve admitted you didnt state any tangible properties, the point being?...

We are at an impass, and will have to agree to disagree. I can write volumes in retort, but feel the effort is futile. You have made your position(and further changed it to fit your argument) and I have made mine. I dont see either of us relenting to the other.

By the way, the OP did NOT specifically say he was looking for an AGD trigger. He gave AGD triggers as examples, but he does not specifically indicate he is looking strictly for AGD triggers.

You are right, he did not specifically state that. Being on a mag forum, and listing only mag triggers in a poll wasnt specific. True. I guess some experience with answering these questions daily gave me some foresight you dont have to know what he was asking for. I could have been wrong, but wasnt.

[Anjin3515]

I make triggers for mech AGD frames. Tuna makes triggers for the E-mag. AGD makes stock triggers for both.

Ahhh...but at least from viewing the Magsmith....there are no Viperblades to be had.....and that is, if any, the first one I would try.....sweet looking black beauty that it is!

.....also I just have a hunch that I am either a "blade" or a "single trigger" type of guy ...I am used to the Tippmann A-5 single trigger...so a blade would be a new experiance...but what I am used to may not be what is best.

and Moe: what ever you said sounded very interesting.... it also sounded like greek to me...
Forward and backward stops, travel adjust, and magnetic and/or spring tension adjustors,micro switches,optics with a magnetic return,Hall sensor...Im too noob to really understand ...but your points on material are great info that I had not even thought about before.

[drg]

And all those properties are perceived by the user individually. Which is "feel". And subjective. Feel, having been the premise of your original statement quoted in small print below.

The perception is subjective. The properties are not.

Classifications of a manufacturer, who makes and sells these things daily. Of all styles.

1. That is one manufacturer's classifications. There are no industry standard definitions for these terms. 2. He is not asking the question as a prospective manufacturer, but as a prospective user.

The edge of a trigger is where the top surface and the side surface meet. If that edge has no hump, its a single edge and considered a blade trigger. If there is a hump in that edge, it is double-edged and considered a double trigger. This was made clear in my previous posts.

This illustrates well why what you think about as a manufacturer is not always the end-all answer (as seems to be the angle you take in most discussions here, as far as I have seen). I have also made clear in my posts that I have a different set of definitions, which, I submit, are more relevant to the end-user.

Those tangible properties mean nothing outside the context of a user. Without the subjectiveness, its merely a piece of material.

The truth, as is quite often the case, is in the grey area between. It simply cannot be denied that the physical properties of the trigger -- which include its shape -- are very important to the ultimate perception of that trigger. What that perception is, obviously, will vary.

Your very first statement relative to this conversation was:


So you started with the difference in feel. And now have changed your premise to being a matter of 'tangible properties'. Which was not your original position, and as youve admitted you didnt state any tangible properties, the point being?...

Yes, and by feel, as I clarified later, I mean trigger feel, the physical properties of the trigger.

We are at an impass, and will have to agree to disagree. I can write volumes in retort, but feel the effort is futile. You have made your position(and further changed it to fit your argument) and I have made mine. I dont see either of us relenting to the other.

I clarified it, I did not change it.

You are right, he did not specifically state that. Being on a mag forum, and listing only mag triggers in a poll wasnt specific. True. I guess some experience with answering these questions daily gave me some foresight you dont have to know what he was asking for. I could have been wrong, but wasnt.

[RogueFactor]

Ahhh...but at least from viewing the Magsmith....there are no Viperblades to be had.....and that is, if any, the first one I would try.....sweet looking black beauty that it is!

.....also I just have a hunch that I am either a "blade" or a "single trigger" type of guy ...I am used to the Tippmann A-5 single trigger...so a blade would be a new experiance...but what I am used to may not be what is best.

and Moe: what ever you said sounded very interesting.... it also sounded like greek to me...
Forward and backward stops, travel adjust, and magnetic and/or spring tension adjustors,micro switches,optics with a magnetic return,Hall sensor...Im too noob to really understand ...but your points on material are great info that I had not even thought about before.

Ok, well I hope this doesnt muddie the waters then.

If I had to choose a trigger off the internet(like you), Id choose the ViperBlade(based on looks). Having used both the Viper and Splinter though, Id choose the Splinter based on feel. The edge of a Viperblade has a hard edge, the edge of the Splinter trigger is scalloped. For me, this makes the Splinter a more comfortable trigger.

Ive had my opinion asked of the 2 triggers many times, and Ive always answered it that way.

The one thing that ClassicMagger said that was true, was the hump on the Splinter is as minimal as it can be while being a double trigger. ClassicMagger prefers blade triggers, but loves the Splinter---which is why he wants to consider the Splinter more of a blade trigger(or hybrid).

[RogueFactor]

Yes, and by feel, as I clarified later, I mean trigger feel, the physical properties of the trigger.

I clarified it, I did not change it.

Yes, you changed it.

You have attempted still to use the word "feel" in the term "trigger feel" to define "physical properties". There are no definitions of the word feel that would fit your own personal definition of physical properties for the term 'trigger feel' you invented. Therefore you changed it to fit your argument.

If you think you are right, just show me somewhere in a dictionary that defines the term feel, as "physcial properties" outside the context of being touched.

That remains to be seen.

You must have missed some of his posts...its very clearly been stated and seen:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2409596&postcount=34

Furthermore, being a dyed-in-the-wool mechanical 'mag guy cannot help but color your opinions. The trigger shape takes on less and less significance the heavier the trigger is. As most mech mags are not usually walked, the differences between a simple curve and compound curve trigger shape are far less significant.

That dyed-in-wool mech guy I am doesnt limit my experience with electro markers, or those with electro-like pulls. I have owned E-mags(electronic), DevilMags(electronic), hAir trigger(pneumatic frame with an electro feel), Hyperframed mag(electro), Boo-Yah mag(electronic), as well as all the mechs.

I have shot Ion's, Vikings, Timmies, Angels, Cockers, Cyborgs, and Ego's.
I also have also owned a Matrix and a Mini.

[drg]

Yes, you changed it.

You have attempted still to use the word "feel" in the term "trigger feel" to define "physical properties". There are no definitions of the word feel that would fit your own personal definition of "physical properties". Therefore you changed it to fit your argument.

If you think you are right, just show me somewhere in a dictionary that defines the term feel, as "physcial properties" outside the context of being touched.

You do realize that idiomatic expressions and compound terms can have different meanings from their component words, right?

Search around a little on how the term "trigger feel" is used in general parlance. Almost exclusively you will find that it is thought of as a property of the weapon, not the user.

You must have missed some of his posts...its very clearly been stated and seen:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showp...6&postcount=34

Well, that was kind of a joke.

That dyed-in-wool mech guy I am doesnt limit my experience with electro markers, or those with electro-like pulls. I have owned E-mags(electronic), DevilMags(electronic), hAir trigger(pneumatic frame with an electro feel), Hyperframed mag(electro), Boo-Yah mag(electronic), as well as all the mechs.

I have shot Ion's, Vikings, Timmies, Angels, Cockers, Cyborgs, and Ego's.
I also have also owned a Matrix and a Mini.

However it is mech mags you choose to manufacture parts for, and that is what I am talking about by that reference. You approach the analysis from the position of manufacturer of mech mag parts, which IMO does disservice to the end-user seeking a real response on "feel" -- objectively or subjectively.

[RogueFactor]

Oops, forgot to address these 2 topics:

2. He is not asking the question as a prospective manufacturer, but as a prospective user.

Agreed. I happen to be both an end-user, and a manufacturer.

This illustrates well why what you think about as a manufacturer is not always the end-all answer (as seems to be the angle you take in most discussions here, as far as I have seen). I have also made clear in my posts that I have a different set of definitions, which, I submit, are more relevant to the end-user.

Being the end-user you are illustrates well why you have a limited scope to speak from, and as such will have a limited viewpoint to advise from.

As an end-user, you lack the knowledge that being a manufacturer has given. Or the feedback from the 1000's of users I have acquired. Or the experience of having tested all styles and shapes of triggers on the market to manufacture the ones I do. Or the knowledge that comes from other manufacturers in the industry who have made the triggers you speak of. And the experience from the trial & error from having made triggers in different shapes and sizes that have never been on the market.

And of course, I too am an end-user.

So, I submit that your set of definitions are less relevant, as I am not only an end-user but also a manufacturer and have some knowledge that you may not. Even with your half-cocker knowledge and experience.

[drg]

I think you think a little too highly of your ideas to the point that it is detrimental to many discussions I have seen you involved in.

All that vaunted manufacturer perspective doesn't amount to anything other than distraction and misinformation in this thread.

The bottom line is that to place the AGD Pro-blade and single-curve blade triggers like it and the Viperblade compound curve trigger and "recurve"/"wave"/"scythe" triggers like it in the same category of "feel" -- in ANY sense of the word as relates to paintball gun triggers -- is ludicrous.

And frankly, you are being ludicrous if you assert same.

Now before you chime in with the fact that the OP did not mention "feel" in his post ... discussing preference without discussing feel is also ludicrous.

[RogueFactor]

You do realize that idiomatic expressions and compound terms can have different meanings from their component words, right?

Is this your way of admitting you made the word up? :rofl:

Search around a little on how the term "trigger feel" is used in general parlance. Almost exclusively you will find that it is thought of as a property of the weapon, not the user.

Id be interested to have you show me where the term "trigger feel" as youve defined it is used in general parlance. If used in general discussion, you should be able to easily find it as youve described.

However it is mech mags you choose to manufacture parts for, and that is what I am talking about by that reference. You approach the analysis from the position of manufacturer of mech mag parts, which IMO does disservice to the end-user seeking a real response on "feel" -- objectively or subjectively.

Interestingly, you know less than you purport.

[drg]

Id be interested to have you show me where the term "trigger feel" as youve defined it is used in general parlance. If used in general discussion, you should be able to easily find it as youve described.

Sigh. I will do your homework exactly once in this thread.

Every rifle is different, and each one has a different trigger feel and pull.

http://www.army.com/articles/item/1958

You can get a nice trigger on a Ruger (don't compare GP trigger feel to SP trigger feel because they are different and the GP is vastly superior to the SP for nice trigger feel).

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:c7bcd2sXpd0J:www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D163094+%22trigger+feel%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us&client=firefox-a

ust wanted to thank you for the great work you did on my XD45acp Tactical. The trigger feel is phenomenal. My groups have tightened up significantly.

http://www.springerprecision.com/reviews.asp

When I owned Ruger revolvers I always wanted to send them for trigger work to improve their lackluster trigger feel.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...ad.php?t=59582

This conversion fulfills both of these requirements. The trigger feel is identical to the standard Glock. I have a 3.5 connector, and everything is polished. The trigger feels the same whether I have the 22LR upper on, or the 9mm upper.

http://glocktalk.com/sitemap/topic/371272-1.html

Due to the sliding nature of this mechanical interface, the sear 2 and hammer 4 generally must be precisely machined so as to provide and ensure smooth and even surfaces on both the hammer and sear, so as to provide a smooth and crisp trigger feel during shooting to avoid catching or hesitation during firing, which can lead to misfires and affect the aim of the shooter.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050246932.html

Ad infinitum ...

[RogueFactor]

All that vaunted manufacturer perspective doesn't amount to anything other than distraction and misinformation in this thread.

The only person that makes that determination in this case is the OP. And he has found this info informative, regardless of your position.

The only distraction and misinformation is that which you have presented in an attempt to appear educated on the subject.

The bottom line is that to place the AGD Pro-blade and single-curve blade triggers like it and the Viperblade compound curve trigger and "recurve"/"wave"/"scythe" triggers like it in the same category of "feel" -- in ANY sense of the word as relates to paintball gun triggers -- is ludicrous.

Ludicrous I say!

Nah, ludicrous is having a discussion with someone who wants to define their words with their own dictionary or hide behind their fallacies with idioms.

And frankly, you are being ludicrous if you assert same.

Now before you chime in with the fact that the OP did not mention "feel" in his post ... discussing preference without discussing feel is also ludicrous.

There is little need to assert or chime in. As Ive already stated...

We are at an impass, and will have to agree to disagree. I can write volumes in retort, but feel the effort is futile. You have made your position(and further changed it to fit your argument) and I have made mine. I dont see either of us relenting to the other.