Would you still buy AGD products if....

[d4m4don3]

Call Apple or Lenovo, they'll give you a list.

Lenovo? LOL

Sure they may have lots of contracts now, but since becoming lenovo many have been switching to other companies.

[custar]

Call Apple or Lenovo, they'll give you a list.

Negative on the Lenovo. I have an IBM laptop (which I am using now even though it is about 2 generations old) and one of the new Lenovo laptops. IBM may have been manufacturing laptops in China, but when it went strictly to Lenovo, quality fell off the edge. I will not buy a Lenovo machine again.

custar

[drg]

Supporting an American company is a large part of the value of buying an automag. The gun itself, new, isn't terribly competitive in most ways today.

[robnix]

Negative on the Lenovo. I have an IBM laptop (which I am using now even though it is about 2 generations old) and one of the new Lenovo laptops. IBM may have been manufacturing laptops in China, but when it went strictly to Lenovo, quality fell off the edge. I will not buy a Lenovo machine again.

custar

Lenovo? LOL

Sure they may have lots of contracts now, but since becoming lenovo many have been switching to other companies.

The point is, and both of you argumentative gits know it, is that there ARE quality products manufactured in China.

[drg]

Also let's not confuse "China" which usually means mainland China, with Taiwan.

[robnix]

Will you be the first in line to purchase one of the new Chinese made cars? Seatbelt...would it really matter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F06LjugtIUo&feature=related

Or maybe you are into SUV's instead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Ts9...eature=related

No, but those cars are crap. I won't buy American cars if they're crap either.

I buy mags because I like that AGD sets high standards for production, the parts are modular, and they're easy to maintain. I buy parts from certain 3rd party sellers because they maintain those standards and keep my mags the sold piece of hardware that they are. If they weren't, there are several other excellent choices for markers, some made here, some made in other countries.

[CoolHand]

Also let's not confuse "China" which usually means mainland China, with Taiwan.

Indeed. ROC != Chicoms Totally different ways of doing things, not to mention about a thirty year head start.

The Chicoms can indeed manufacture high quality items, they are no stupider than anyone else. They make some quite good machine tools, but they don't sell them in the US. Why? Because the only reason people in the US buy stuff from China is because it usually has a retardedly low price tag hanging from it.

You can't make something from nothing, and you can't sell something for nothing, and the Chinese know this all too well. The rub is, when faced with price or quality, they know that price is what sells it, so that's the way they swing.

The only reason a manufacturer goes to China to build their product is so they can lower their price point to under cut their competition. The only way to do that is to do so with crappy materials in a slap happy manner. Don't measure, don't check, just get them built and shipped. Faster, faster, faster.

The Chinese make an excellent copy of the Deckel five axis manual milling machines. They might as well have come from Deckel, the quality is that good. They only sell them in China, India, and Eastern Europe, because the price is nearly the same as a Deckel by the time you get one here, and the Deckel name carries the day with anyone who would be in the market for such a machine.

They are entirely capable of competing on quality, they just choose not to because they cannot under cut the going price when they do. They know their bread and butter is cheap crap at under half the going price point, so that's what they stick to for exports. They keep the quality production in-country where it can grow their industrial capacity, so they can continue to crap out cheap exports to fund said growth.

That all said:

1) No, probably not. There are still many fine pb markers to be had that are indeed made in the US. Especially with the glut of high quality used guns on the market now a days, I see no reason to buy a new Chinese made marker when I can have a gently used US made marker for even less. I also avoid Chicom stuff whenever possible because I dislike their politics, their general disregard for the rule of law, and the ease with which they dismiss the communution of their own people in the pursuit of the party line.

2) TK is a hell of a guy, but if the Mag were what it is today and TK had never touched it, I'd still buy one. The product is what it is because of TK, but if it could have become what it is without him, it would still be a great product.

[Motorhead]

I go out of my way to read "MADE IN" tags, China I avoid like the plague.
They pay NO attention to Patent laws, Copyright protocol or Design rights in general.
See little too no free thinking or research & design that is their own .... copy cats and mass merchanting HORES !!

So NO, if AGD came from China it would not be purchased

TK, passed the torch domestically, if the market exists for the business to survive as it is now, GREAT. If paintball and it's pioneers lived the glory days and profited from it peak, good for them If PB as we know it is now yesterdays news, so be it.

** Outside of BLING, a few ounces lighter, bps hoopla & bragging rights, there are enough MAGS around from all those who once played and owned one and now don't play, to get one in the hands of those who still play or will in the future.

In ones PB playing lifetime it is damn hard to wear one out, you don't need 3 or more.
Take the stock piled Mags from the marker hoarders and get them in the hand of those wanting to play, again you likely would have excess markers available.

JMO

[CoolHand]

. . . . Take the stock piled Mags from the marker hoarders and get them in the hand of those wanting to play, again you likely would have excess markers available.. . .

Hey!

We're not hoarding them, we're preserving them for future generations.

If you consider buying up any used marker that crosses your path at a good price as "saving" them, my army of the "saved" should be putting me up for sainthood any day now.

[AGD]

Just so you guys know, I still own the company, Dave bought the inventory and I let him use the name etc to sell the product. I am still interested in the long term survival of AGD and am keeping all the options open on that INCLUDING being involved down the road.

And as you can see I still come here every day. :)

AGD

[MoeMag]

Sa-Mack!

Long live AGD

[Pneumagger]

I go out of my way to read "MADE IN" tags, China I avoid like the plague...

ORLY
What computer are you typing on might I ask... Or what brand monitor are you looking at?



--------------------

Quality things are made in china all the time. Like logic said, we never see the good stuff they make because even over there good stuff costs more to make and even more to ship. Even still they still make some good stuff that sell sover here. Their cars have phenomenal lifespans.

If the quality were there I would still buy it. And no offense, if TK made a poor quality product I probably wouldn't buy it.
In all honestly, I'm pretty much done with buying paintball markers. I have my nice pump, I have my nice mag, and I have my custom project marker. I don't see that changing in a long while. All my disposable budget has been going to wards real guns and ammo. Just started payment for a Full Auto MAC 11 today actually - that'll be a good project for the rest of the year.

[Ratt]

1) AGD products were made in China or Taiwan would you still buy them

and

2)If Tom Kay was in NO WAY associated with AGD would that matter?


Discuss.

Short answer: NO, I would not buy if made in China. Also, if TK gave his 'seal of approval' to someone else's involvement with/running of AGD, then I might be inclined to buy...

[Pacifist_Farmer]

They pay NO attention to Patent laws, Copyright protocol or Design rights in general.
See little too no free thinking or research & design that is their own .... copy cats and mass merchanting HORES !!

While I completely agree, and as I hear it that is one of the main reasons some manufacturers will not move to China, isn't that more of a marketing/upper management/lack of morals issue than a manufacturing quality issue. The people that are responsible for making quality parts are not usually the ones making the policy designs.

[BigEvil]

I think it's because the situation you are suggesting isn't really likely, or even possible. You just can't get a part made to the standards it would need to be in China.

Anything is possible. Note the across the board price increases on AGD products. Hypothetically, an option to move production to China would help lower cost, no?

I also deal with Chinese manufacturing every day, and from several different locations. It seems that neither of them can do the same thing correctly twice in a row. Whether its a products color, packaging, container cubing, or even cargo manifests there are issues every day here. Crap like that goes with the 'cheap' territory.

Things can either be made for a low cost and poorly or for more money and better quality.

They say to be successful you need to do one thing better than anyone else. The one thing AGD has always done better than any other paintball manufacturer is make a better quality product. You can argue faster, lighter, more efficient, but you cannot argue quality. A move to Chinese production would eliminate that standard.

The one thing China can do better, is make dollar store quality products cheaply.

Another thing about my original post, is that there is, or was, a cult like loyalty to Tom Kaye. I was curious to know how people would react to his permanent absence.