ever wonder...

[Hilltop Customs]

My design is LP, but that's merely incidental. I don't really believe in this LP hooey anyways. I took a 440 grain arrow without vanes and shoved it down the barrel of me level 7 mag. It only shot out about 3 feet. It didn't even have enough power to put the tip into the ground. That's soft.

when you say lp mag what exactly do you mean? is it still blow forward spring return? If thats the case I hope you realize that lower pressure will require a softer spring....a softer spring means a slower return of the bolt, which has a chance of causing some major problems. The use of a softer spring can be avoided if the diameter of the power tube is increased, but then you run into intereference problems with the bolt.

Either way continually mentioning your "new design lp mag" is never going to accomplish anything because no one knows what your talking about. (i'm no telling you to disclose anything. I'm just saying theres no point in talking about something that you cannot reveal)


finally maybe i'm missing something buy what does shooting an arrow out of a paintball gun prove? I'm just not seeing what your talking about there?

[Ruler_Mark]

or at least its one of the reasons, recharge rate may be in there as well but ive found volume is more important than psi, when my tank full (4500) i get a lot more rt than when my tank drops down to 2000-2500 yet it still out puts the same 800 psi. but the normal psi that is held behind the bolt is about 450 so you can theoreticaly use a mag to 450 psi in your tank and on my mag at least i can get it down to 5-600, cant shoot much but can still shoot.

a friend had mentioned trying to do an lp mag and was pretty serious but he just ran out of time

-matt

The reason why is because there isnt 3k-4.5k behind the tank reg,, when you get lower the pressure recharge is slower up to the 800psi.

Centerflag patented some technologie in their dynaflows where the reg slowly increases the output pressure to compensate for the lower flow when the pressure is rechargering effectively eliminating the recharge difference when the tank is lower. This is the magic about why dyna's are crazy easy to RT.

[SR_matt]

The reason why is because there isnt 3k-4.5k behind the tank reg,, when you get lower the pressure recharge is slower up to the 800psi.

Centerflag patented some technologie in their dynaflows where the reg slowly increases the output pressure to compensate for the lower flow when the pressure is rechargering effectively eliminating the recharge difference when the tank is lower. This is the magic about why dyna's are crazy easy to RT.

ya i know the reasoning and basic physics behind why but it still gets annoying... then again gravity can be annoying some times too

lp vs hp. well some dont like lp others love it, in my experiences and setting up guns i have had better luck with lp set ups than hp, gotten better efficiency and less breaks with more consistent fps, now if its due to lp or just how that set up is, cant say or prove either way but for me LP works better over all
-matt

[halB]

when you say lp mag what exactly do you mean? is it still blow forward spring return? If thats the case I hope you realize that lower pressure will require a softer spring....a softer spring means a slower return of the bolt, which has a chance of causing some major problems. The use of a softer spring can be avoided if the diameter of the power tube is increased, but then you run into intereference problems with the bolt.

Either way continually mentioning your "new design lp mag" is never going to accomplish anything because no one knows what your talking about. (i'm no telling you to disclose anything. I'm just saying theres no point in talking about something that you cannot reveal)


finally maybe i'm missing something buy what does shooting an arrow out of a paintball gun prove? I'm just not seeing what your talking about there?

As to the arrow: If you nocked that arrow and pulled it back only half an inch on a 28" 60# pound it would fly around 10 feet and stick into the ground. It's really impressive how little energy you have to put into the system to get results. But, the mag was so weak in how it acted on the arrow. If the mag was really harsh on paint, or if LP was really softer on paint, I REALLY would have expected it to fly at least 7 feet from the bolt's propulsion. In other words, even though the mag is "HP" it sure is weak on the gun.

And of course no one has any idea about what I'm talking about. No one else has invented it. I just don't know what else to say. The only person I'd trust to talk to about this gun would be Mr. Kaye. I don't know why, but I just trust that man. I also know he'd do the design right and wouldn't cut corners. Anyone who can design a gun like THAT is trustworthy. I just don't know what else to do! I have this wicked sweet design and I can't even give it away! What the hell else can I do? You can't email the guy, you can't PM the guy, just what more can I do?

[SR_matt]

for the arrow, unless you had a way to seal the barrel even partially the arrow would fly a lot farther. of course it wont go out at all if all the air is escaping around it (its what .2 inch when a paintball is .68 so you have .24 on all sides of the arrow for air to escape around

-matt

[Beemer]

What the hell else can I do? You can't email the guy, you can't PM the guy, just what more can I do?

Well you can. Go here and decode his addy. http://tomkaye.com/personal.shtml

[Geronimo7]

Well you can. Go here and decode his addy. http://tomkaye.com/personal.shtml

well then



i'm speechless

[Geronimo7]

oh boy





somebody tell me i drank too many beers

[Hilltop Customs]

As to the arrow: If you nocked that arrow and pulled it back only half an inch on a 28" 60# pound it would fly around 10 feet and stick into the ground. It's really impressive how little energy you have to put into the system to get results. But, the mag was so weak in how it acted on the arrow. If the mag was really harsh on paint, or if LP was really softer on paint, I REALLY would have expected it to fly at least 7 feet from the bolt's propulsion. In other words, even though the mag is "HP" it sure is weak on the gun.

And of course no one has any idea about what I'm talking about. No one else has invented it. I just don't know what else to say. The only person I'd trust to talk to about this gun would be Mr. Kaye. I don't know why, but I just trust that man. I also know he'd do the design right and wouldn't cut corners. Anyone who can design a gun like THAT is trustworthy. I just don't know what else to do! I have this wicked sweet design and I can't even give it away! What the hell else can I do? You can't email the guy, you can't PM the guy, just what more can I do?

keep a notebook, and keep it signed/dated for each day you add something into it. Once you have completed your design, get someone you trust(and someone who would be able to understand whats in the notebook, an attorney has added benifits) to sign and date the finished notebook as a witness. This is what was explained to me by a patent attorney. Its still not as "safe" as actually patenting the design, but he said it should hold up in court as prior art and is basically free. You still should never go around sharing designs, even if you have a notebook because it is still not as protectable as an actual patent. Also if your working for a compnay and are adding anything to the notebook on company time, they basically own everything in the notebook.

for the arrow, unless you had a way to seal the barrel even partially the arrow would fly a lot farther. of course it wont go out at all if all the air is escaping around it (its what .2 inch when a paintball is .68 so you have .24 on all sides of the arrow for air to escape around

-matt

I think what halB is trying to refrence is the speed/force of the bolt itself, nothing to do with the air pressure behind the ball/arrow(although the pressure will have an impact on how far the arrow flys). I was going to say the same thing at first. halB thats not really a good test because of a few reasons....your only result is how far the arrow flys, this is only a measure of how fast the arrow is moving when exiting the barrel. A bow and arrow applys a smooth acceleration, maintaining contact between the bow string and arrow through the cycle. Now if you had some way to look inside the firing chamber while you did you arrow test, you would see that the arrow only remained in contact for a split second with the bolt.....basically bouncing off and not being accelerated by the bolt. Angeling the mag up in the air would probably extend the time to arrow remains in contact with the bolt, and shoot the arrow farther.

Then there is also the fact that the bow and arrow uses the complete pullback to accelerate the bolt, while the mag bolt has to accelerate, decelerate, and come to a stop in the length it moves. What I mean by this is the mag bolt has an extremely short period of max velocity somewhere in the middle of its movement, while the bow has its max velocity as the string passes its resting point....which is the point where the string loses contact with the arrow.

And finally theres friction....as the arrow moves down the barrel it will incurr much more friction than when leaving a bow.

Were you trying to measure the speed or the force of the bolt? Both will vary greatly as the bolt goes through its movement. But for a bolt like the LVL7 its max force is at the start of its movement, and decreases to nothing as it reaches its max extenstion.