Soon you will be supporting Smart Parts when you buy a Quick-Release feedneck...

[skipdogg]

Sean,
My opinion is no less important than yours. It's just that you don't like mine. BTW you may not have noticed this, but most of this thread is opinion. Thanks for playing

[Smart Parts Sean]

personally i have never owned one, i have had team mates and a lot of friends that owned them and from seeing them have to work on them and the issues they have had i will never own one. i want the ability to rip the gun apart wipe it down toss it back together and go. no issues with having to lube other than dump some oil in, shoot a few times and its good. i really feel that anything mechanical or electronic that is so temperamental that one scratch/bump/etc will cause damage that will affect the performance is worthless. if i have a computer that because the way it was designed in a way that if i drop it 2 feet the HD gets damaged to the point i cannot retrieve any data then the HD/computer is a POS. if i have a car that i get in a fender bender the car has to get towed to a shop because the way it was designed that small of damage renders the engine useless then that car is not worth even getting in.

from what i have seen with my friends having issues 95% of the issues on those markers are either due to lube or orings, with the majority being lube issues, i will say this was with the early resurgence of the spoolers so i expect they have gotten better but im turned off of them, plus i also just dont like the feel, dye, sp, what ever just dont like the feel (kind of ploopy)

there are ways around these issues, look at the m 16, it was marketed at a gun that didnt have to be cleaned and was perfect. well after guns stopped working and they issued cleaning kits they were not as bad except they could still freeze up and dont take dirt/dust well at all. while the AK-47s can be rusted shut, kicked open, loaded and fired. while yes the design is slightly different it uses the same type of system to return the bolt. yet the m16 is no where near as durable as an ak.

well you say any barrel with porting that size will shoot bad, i dont mean that you just have to swab them i mean the players would have to clean out every single porting hole to get it shooting fine. i can break a ball in my dye barrels, swab it out and it shoots fine.

-matt

Anyone and their mom can work on a simple blow back gun. how many years did it take to teach the populus that?? Electro-pneumatic spool valve type guns are not as widely known on how to work on them. So, i would say 75% of the problems people have with spool guns is from the person working on them and not knowing what they are doing. Me personally, I can do it blind folded. But most of the people out there do not know how to work on them. When i tech at Scenario games, 9-10 problems I work on are due to user error. And then I teach them what they are doing wrong. The SP1 and Vibe are simplfied even further.

[Smart Parts Sean]

Yes, I recall you mentioning that, but he still said what he said. Dyslexia isn't an excuse for the kinds of attacks he made on people or the kind of misinformation that he spread.


You're talking out your butt again. I've never heard of such high input pressures wearing down the sear - actually, the sear's made of carbide steel, I'd like to see a bolt eat through that. In fact, many people here routinely run their R/T 'mags with a 1200psi input. You're not going to convince anyone that there's an input pressure that's "too high" for the R/T to handle. Maybe you didn't want it to bounce and didn't know how to tune the on/off properly, but that's not a problem with the R/T. Bottom line, though, is that AGD saw the future of the sport and declined to patent HPA systems in paintball; AGD could have patented HPA systems, licensed to a few select companies for a tiny or even nonexistent fee at first to get them accepted and then made other companies pay large royalties when they wanted to make their own HPA systems. That would have been the Smart Parts method, but AGD sees and cares about the future of the sport. That's why AGD didn't patent HPA, that's why Smart Parts patented the microswitch, and that's why I support AGD and not Smart Parts: because I would rather see my money go to a company that actively advances the sport instead of stifling its development.

Am I talking out my butt? i did used to have an RT back in the day as well. I went through many sears and bolts. The actual carbine piece would start to seperate from the sear. Also, this is from the RT manual

Your AUTOMAG RT is designed to run on compressed air only! It
will not function at all on CO2 no matter what hoses, expansion
chambers, etc. you use. We recommend that you purchase a highquality
3000 psi compressed air tank and regulator for your
AUTOMAG RT. The maximum input pressure to the paintball marker
should be above 600 psi and less than 1000 psi for best performance.
Pressures over 1000 psi will damage the regulator and
reduce performance.

Could AGD have patented HPA?? Who knows. Did he have patents on his regs? Yes. He was the first to start using HPA, but he never produced an actual air system for sale until many years later which was the flatline. I believe it was Air America who made the very first air systems sold on the market.

As I said, the only thing that came out of the Turbo boards were more cheater boards - are you really going to make the case that cheater boards are good for the sport? Concerning the Magic Box, yes, you can sell useless junk to people who don't know what they're buying. Respectable companies like AGD don't do that - they try the idea, and if it doesn't work they release the test results so people can see the hype for themselves. Take rifling, for example. The Smart Parts method is to put some spiral porting on a barrel and make unsubstantiated claims that it a) actually spins the ball and b) that spin actually provides some benefit. The AGD method is to create a scientific study in which they spin a barrel at speeds up to 30000rpm to get both the shell and fill up to speed and figure out that lateral spin a) doesn't have any effect at lower rpms and b) actually causes the ball to curve and reduces accuracy at higher rpms. Then they release these results so people can see for themselves. Check out Tom's Tech Tips and the Deep Blue forum here, and you'll see that data. You can see the same thing with the Magic Box - rather than have AGD make a "low pressure" 'mag, Mr. Kaye decided to use emperical data to prove that low pressure is a complete myth and doesn't do anything. Maybe it's better business for a company to just make the product that does nothing and sell it, but that's not the company I'll be supporting. Funny, with all these engineers that you say Smart Parts employs, I'd think you could actually release some data so people could discover what your products really do, or at least test some of these things so you're not just filling the marketplace with useless products. Don't claim this is all in the past, either - I've recently seen Smart Parts making claims that the SP-8 shoots farther, et cetera.

SP-8.. no we never said it shot further by any means. There have bven some posts that people have said that, but they are not Smart Parts employees. Where do you Smart Parts making this claim??

That is fine. Tom Kaye was a scientist. Yes. I am not doubting that by any means. I do not want to sit here and discuss past things as far as what the paintball coommunity thought at the time. Smart Parts has always listened to the market since market does drive money. And we have changed through the years along with the market. People had many wild claims about every after marekt accessory since paintball came out!! How long have you been in paintball?


We're not talking about Dye, and I don't own any of their markers, either. But yes, you could say that companies sometimes produce low-quality equipment just so they can be sure you'll need to keep buying it when it breaks. In fact, I recall that was one of the things people were going on and on about when the Ion came out - "why bother maintaining your marker when you can just buy a new one every season?" It's amusing to me that someone from Smart Parts would point the finger at Dye as a company that produces replaceable, throwaway products. I guess I'm one of the few that looks at the actual lifetime of a product before buying it.

Anyway, you could easily make the case that Smart Parts has the better business model - look at how Smart Parts has fared compared to AGD. But when people come along who actually bother to put the time in to understand the claims these companies make and actually read and pay attention to the patents they file and the business practices they employ, it shouldn't come as any surprise that Smart Parts comes under some heavy fire for the crap they've pulled. That's why I support AGD, and that's why I don't support Smart Parts - because the honesty and ethics of a company actually mean something to me. You've proved you can sell to the masses with these tactics, but it's going to be a lot harder for you to pull the wool over the eyes of those who are actually paying attention.

The reason there is so much "crap" is due to the fact that Smart Part has never defended itself publicly. So, everyone made up their own mind on what happened and most of everything ended being false.

Claim 1. Smart Parts never designed the PVI Shocker. They just marketed it. FALSE

The reason people say this is because of the boxes and marketing material of the PVI shocker. It said "marketed by Smart Parts, Inc." So people assumed Smart Parts had nothing to so with any of it. One of our own engineers was the one who made it work. Smart Parts financed the venture. Both PVI and Smart Parts co-owned the patent. PVI decided to go behind Smart Parts back and try to make their own. They could not get it to work right, so they went out of business. Adam offered to bail them out and they refused. In the end, Smart Parts had to purchase their half of the patent so someone else would not buy it. And they had to purchase it in order to upkeep the patent as well.

[SR_matt]

Anyone and their mom can work on a simple blow back gun. how many years did it take to teach the populus that?? Electro-pneumatic spool valve type guns are not as widely known on how to work on them. So, i would say 75% of the problems people have with spool guns is from the person working on them and not knowing what they are doing. Me personally, I can do it blind folded. But most of the people out there do not know how to work on them. When i tech at Scenario games, 9-10 problems I work on are due to user error. And then I teach them what they are doing wrong. The SP1 and Vibe are simplfied even further.

the team mates ive had that had spoolers knew how they worked and knew how to fix them correctly. they could fix the issues fine but the fact that issues came back were the issues they had

you can tell me all sorts of stuff about how its user error or what ever but i have seen more spoolers have issues that probably any other style, even if it is user error i think its a design flaw that they are that temperamental


i also remember the claim that the sp-8 shot farther but no idea where it was, but i do remember it being said some where

also about the sear being damaged by the HP. umm no, input pressure into a mag being 450 or being 1450 doesnt matter because it gets reged down so the bolt puts the same force on to the sear


again with all these things be put out "x shoots better than y" "Z is more accurate than K" ok what ever, one may not be more accurate than the other but to the user closed bolt may be more natural or feel better so to that person it is more accurate, riffling on a paintball may not make it more accurate but it may make it more predictable to the user (i for one noticed that instead of getting a ball that went what ever way when i had a break or a bad ball they consistently dropped and flew one direction with my hammer head, given i won it so i dont have any $ at stake to have expectations in it)
-matt

[angrysasquatch]

As for AGD not having a direct hand in the development of the AA raptor

http://walkerz.org/images/pball/Tech/owners_manuals/airamericaraptormanual.pdf

top of pg. 6

http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/downloads/valveexplodedview.pdf

scroll down a couple lines

Don't they look exactly the same? They have the same threads, you could use one of the raptor halves as a replacement for a mag reg. And if you look on the back of any AGD back half (of the valve), you'll see 3000 psi max lasered into it. Just ask Tom, I'm sure he's quite proud of what he did to introduce HPA. And since the combination of simple things (switch, simple circuit board, solenoid, paintball gun) is patentable, I am sure that other easily obtained parts (firefighter's tank, regulator, paintball gun) are equally valid.

[ThePixelGuru]

Am I talking out my butt? i did used to have an RT back in the day as well. I went through many sears and bolts. The actual carbine piece would start to seperate from the sear. Also, this is from the RT manual

Your AUTOMAG RT is designed to run on compressed air only! It
will not function at all on CO2 no matter what hoses, expansion
chambers, etc. you use. We recommend that you purchase a highquality
3000 psi compressed air tank and regulator for your
AUTOMAG RT. The maximum input pressure to the paintball marker
should be above 600 psi and less than 1000 psi for best performance.
Pressures over 1000 psi will damage the regulator and
reduce performance.

Could AGD have patented HPA?? Who knows. Did he have patents on his regs? Yes. He was the first to start using HPA, but he never produced an actual air system for sale until many years later which was the flatline. I believe it was Air America who made the very first air systems sold on the market.

I don't know how you managed to go through so many sears and bolts (there's no noticeable wear on the bolts or sears of any of my 'mags, and that's an old classic, a Minimag and a classic R/T), but I know why AGD tells you not to run HPA at that high an input. It's because AGD tests everything way past where it's rated, and suggests the setup where you'll have zero problems. Keep in mind AGD says the RT valves can get 26bps - they mean without shootdown and with no issues, period. You take someone like Zak Vetter, and he'll have an R/T spitting out 34+ bps no problem. Anyway, not the point.

As I mentioned earlier and another poster just provided evidence to back, Air America's tank regs were closely based on the Automag regulator. AGD could have patented HPA, granted AA a low- or no-cost license to produce HPA systems and had the rest of the industry by the balls when it inevitably caught on. As I said before, they didn't, because they actually cared about the future of the sport and didn't want to stifle its growth.

SP-8.. no we never said it shot further by any means. There have bven some posts that people have said that, but they are not Smart Parts employees. Where do you Smart Parts making this claim??

At smartparts.com when it was released. Thankfully I don't see it there any more, but I have seen it on other products since (the names escape me, but I want to say SP made that claim about the Vibe, too). I'm sure it won't be the last time. As long as the PBN kiddies keep thinking that some markers actually do shoot farther than others, I expect Smart Parts will keep making these claims.

That is fine. Tom Kaye was a scientist. Yes. I am not doubting that by any means. I do not want to sit here and discuss past things as far as what the paintball coommunity thought at the time. Smart Parts has always listened to the market since market does drive money. And we have changed through the years along with the market. People had many wild claims about every after marekt accessory since paintball came out!! How long have you been in paintball?

Long enough to know whether a product actually does something. Just because other people have made bullcrap claims before doesn't mean that your bullcrap claims are any better. You can listen to the market without making worthless products and falsely advertising them. If you haven't figured it out by now, I support companies that make products that actually do what they say. I don't exactly have to go out on a limb to say that consumers like me aren't really your bread and butter.

The reason there is so much "crap" is due to the fact that Smart Part has never defended itself publicly. So, everyone made up their own mind on what happened and most of everything ended being false.

Claim 1. Smart Parts never designed the PVI Shocker. They just marketed it. FALSE

The reason people say this is because of the boxes and marketing material of the PVI shocker. It said "marketed by Smart Parts, Inc." So people assumed Smart Parts had nothing to so with any of it. One of our own engineers was the one who made it work. Smart Parts financed the venture. Both PVI and Smart Parts co-owned the patent. PVI decided to go behind Smart Parts back and try to make their own. They could not get it to work right, so they went out of business. Adam offered to bail them out and they refused. In the end, Smart Parts had to purchase their half of the patent so someone else would not buy it. And they had to purchase it in order to upkeep the patent as well.

Hmm, there are a whole lot of companies who never defended themselves publicly, how much crap do people talk about them? None of them need an employee to crusade around forums spreading their side of the story. People didn't just decide to badmouth Smart Parts for the hell of it. And I never said anything in that post about the PVI Shocker - guilty conscience, maybe?

[RogueFactor]

The reason there is so much "crap" is due to the fact that Smart Part has never defended itself publicly. So, everyone made up their own mind on what happened and most of everything ended being false.

Claim 1. Smart Parts never designed the PVI Shocker. They just marketed it. FALSE

The reason people say this is because of the boxes and marketing material of the PVI shocker. It said "marketed by Smart Parts, Inc." So people assumed Smart Parts had nothing to so with any of it. One of our own engineers was the one who made it work. Smart Parts financed the venture. Both PVI and Smart Parts co-owned the patent. PVI decided to go behind Smart Parts back and try to make their own. They could not get it to work right, so they went out of business. Adam offered to bail them out and they refused. In the end, Smart Parts had to purchase their half of the patent so someone else would not buy it. And they had to purchase it in order to upkeep the patent as well.

There is no other way to respond to this other than this quote from the judge who presided over the patent case between WDP & SP:

"the evidence also strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam could have invented what is claimed" -Garr M. King, U.S. Judge

[Smart Parts Sean]

the team mates ive had that had spoolers knew how they worked and knew how to fix them correctly. they could fix the issues fine but the fact that issues came back were the issues they had

you can tell me all sorts of stuff about how its user error or what ever but i have seen more spoolers have issues that probably any other style, even if it is user error i think its a design flaw that they are that temperamental


i also remember the claim that the sp-8 shot farther but no idea where it was, but i do remember it being said some where

also about the sear being damaged by the HP. umm no, input pressure into a mag being 450 or being 1450 doesnt matter because it gets reged down so the bolt puts the same force on to the sear


again with all these things be put out "x shoots better than y" "Z is more accurate than K" ok what ever, one may not be more accurate than the other but to the user closed bolt may be more natural or feel better so to that person it is more accurate, riffling on a paintball may not make it more accurate but it may make it more predictable to the user (i for one noticed that instead of getting a ball that went what ever way when i had a break or a bad ball they consistently dropped and flew one direction with my hammer head, given i won it so i dont have any $ at stake to have expectations in it)
-matt

The thing with the R/T is that the higher the pressure, the more it "reacts" which does put a lot more waer and tear on the bolt and sear. I have seen many of the carbide part of the sear actually seperate back in the day.

We never made the claim about the SP-8. And even if we did.. there are more than enough people here that would have put a stop to it including me.

Spoolers are not your mom's and dad'd blockbacks from the day. They do require a lot more maintenance than most guns, hence why more user errors comes into play.

There is no other way to respond to this other than this quote from the judge who presided over the patent case between WDP & SP:

Smart Parts financed it. It is like you come up with an idea, hire a subcontractor and work with them. And you end up making your idea and working with the sucontractor in making it better. They both were hands on, but they were idea people and money people.

At smartparts.com when it was released. Thankfully I don't see it there any more, but I have seen it on other products since (the names escape me, but I want to say SP made that claim about the Vibe, too). I'm sure it won't be the last time. As long as the PBN kiddies keep thinking that some markers actually do shoot farther than others, I expect Smart Parts will keep making these claims.

I do not remember it ever being said about the SP-8 and I know for fact we never said it about the Vibe. I have been very involoved with the Vibe and SP1 projects here. More so than the Ion and SP8 because I moved here to PA from CA after the ION and SP8 had been out for a year.

Long enough to know whether a product actually does something. Just because other people have made bullcrap claims before doesn't mean that your bullcrap claims are any better. You can listen to the market without making worthless products and falsely advertising them. If you haven't figured it out by now, I support companies that make products that actually do what they say. I don't exactly have to go out on a limb to say that consumers like me aren't really your bread and butter.

All of our claims on our current gun line, I will stand beside 100%. We do not do everything the market suggests. There are many things the market thinks it needs, like High ROF. Which is complete nonsense. And you are correct, customers like you are not our bread and butter, but I would like to inform everyone of Smart Parts today. I personally want to get past the "past" BS and move forward. WHich is why I like discussing this stuff on the forums. I gather what people say and learn from it as well so I can better help Smart Parts while hopefully trying to educate people out there.

Hmm, there are a whole lot of companies who never defended themselves publicly, how much crap do people talk about them? None of them need an employee to crusade around forums spreading their side of the story. People didn't just decide to badmouth Smart Parts for the hell of it. And I never said anything in that post about the PVI Shocker - guilty conscience, maybe?

I do have a very guilty conscience. That is why I do not lie. I brought that up because it just happens to be a big claim a lot of people make. Also, one of the reasons I am on my crusade is becuase most of the BS out there about Smart Parts was generated by me back in the day and I have a guilty conscience about that. Trying to right some of my wrongs.

Don't they look exactly the same? They have the same threads, you could use one of the raptor halves as a replacement for a mag reg. And if you look on the back of any AGD back half (of the valve), you'll see 3000 psi max lasered into it. Just ask Tom, I'm sure he's quite proud of what he did to introduce HPA. And since the combination of simple things (switch, simple circuit board, solenoid, paintball gun) is patentable, I am sure that other easily obtained parts (firefighter's tank, regulator, paintball gun) are equally valid.

I know they are the same. Never said that Tom Kaye did not help. Matter of fact, the only differnce is the spring packs and the reg seat. The Unireg reg seat is harder.

Some interesting things..

Under Kotsiopoulos; Thomas G. (Tom Kaye)
PAT. NO. Title
1 6,609,511 Conveyor feed apparatus for a paintball gun
2 6,488,019 Feeder for a paintball gun
3 6,305,941 Training weapon with trigger actuated indicator light
4 6,305,367 Hopper feeder
5 6,226,915 Forward angled grip for hand-held weapons and the like
6 6,024,077 Pressure regulating system for compressed gas powered weapons or the like
7 5,993,215 Training weapon with trigger actuated indicator light
8 5,913,303 Trigger mechanism for compressed gas powered weapons or the like
9 5,704,342 Compressed gas gun with pressure control arrangement
10 5,639,526 Paint ball
11 5,588,280 Coupon inserting apparatus and method
12 5,280,778 Semi-automatic firing compressed gas gun
13 5,254,379 Paint ball
14 5,079,901 Coupon inserting apparatus and method

AIRGUN DESIGNS
PAT. NO. Title
1 6,609,511 Conveyor feed apparatus for a paintball gun
2 6,467,473 Paintball feeders
3 6,305,367 Hopper feeder
4 5,432,757 Large-diameter, cylinder-shuttle seismic airgun method, apparatus and towing system
5 5,186,156 Air operated toy gun


And who is this guy? Gibson; Gary E. He was a co-inventor of somethings with Tom Kaye
PAT. NO. Title
1 6,615,739 Aerodynamic projectiles and methods of making the same
2 6,230,630 Aerodynamic projectiles and methods of making the same
3 5,704,342 Compressed gas gun with pressure control arrangement
4 5,639,526 Paint ball
5 5,580,748 Diagnostic tests for alzheimers disease
6 5,254,379 Paint ball
7 4,386,095 Diaminopyridines to improve cognition

Anyways. interesting reading.

[SR_matt]

i am jsut going to make a guess but id be willing to bet the last guy in that list was working with TK on his empty balls and the peperball like things he developed for the police

-matt

[ThePixelGuru]

I do not remember it ever being said about the SP-8 and I know for fact we never said it about the Vibe. I have been very involoved with the Vibe and SP1 projects here. More so than the Ion and SP8 because I moved here to PA from CA after the ION and SP8 had been out for a year.

I'm probably wrong about the Vibe, but I know for a fact that when the SP-8 was released the page for it on smartparts.com claimed it had better range. I remember that because a friend who lived down the hall linked it to me, and after reading it I went down to his room and we spent a while trying to figure out if the shroud hid something like a Tippmann's flatline or if it was just marketing hype.

Anyway, both you and I know it's a fact that Smart Parts has falsely claimed features of their products, like "air rifling." It doesn't matter what players thought, they're not actually selling anything. In my opinion, companies have a responsibility to test and verify the claims which they use to sell their products. Smart Parts could have done the responsible thing and tested their products before they sold them on false merits, but instead they chose to claim their products did things that were physically impossible.

All of our claims on our current gun line, I will stand beside 100%. We do not do everything the market suggests. There are many things the market thinks it needs, like High ROF. Which is complete nonsense. And you are correct, customers like you are not our bread and butter, but I would like to inform everyone of Smart Parts today. I personally want to get past the "past" BS and move forward. WHich is why I like discussing this stuff on the forums. I gather what people say and learn from it as well so I can better help Smart Parts while hopefully trying to educate people out there.

That's true, at least - I don't see Smart Parts making those sorts of false claims these days. That's a step in the right direction, but I haven't seen any change in the strongarm patent tactics employed by Smart Parts. I suspect that Smart Parts changed their marketing tactics due to a backlash from increasingly educated consumers; if you've come to these forums looking for feedback, you should know that more and more people are getting wise to Smart Parts' litigation tactics.

I do have a very guilty conscience. That is why I do not lie. I brought that up because it just happens to be a big claim a lot of people make. Also, one of the reasons I am on my crusade is becuase most of the BS out there about Smart Parts was generated by me back in the day and I have a guilty conscience about that. Trying to right some of my wrongs.

I've heard you mention that sort of thing a lot, and my curiosity's getting the better of me now. What exactly was it that influenced you to make the switch from Smart Parts hater to Smart Parts sales rep?

I know they are the same. Never said that Tom Kaye did not help. Matter of fact, the only differnce is the spring packs and the reg seat. The Unireg reg seat is harder.

Some interesting things..
....
Anyways. interesting reading.

Okay, so back to my original point, then. Smart Parts patented using a microswitch in a marker, while companies like AGD and Tippmann freely allow everyone to use air/gas systems they developed. Does it really surprise you that, in an industry that gained so much of its momentum from that kind of good will, Smart Parts takes so much crap for its decision to patent something as simple as a microswitch?

[flyingpootang]

Sean, Thanks for the great discussion and believing in what you do. I'm sure it makes for great water cooler talk at SP. It's kinda sad what happened to Chris and Rich from KAPP. I'm from the Bay Area and watched them go from a paintball store to a manufacture of some nice accessories, milling, and their custom marker line. To bad its a dog eat dog world thats why most have a bad taste for SP. To bad Nelson didn't have a good enough patent of a paint firing apparatus or it may be a different world. Yeah you have to protect your patents, but no one likes a monopoly either.....

[JesseB]

Okay, so back to my original point, then. Smart Parts patented using a microswitch in a marker, while companies like AGD and Tippmann freely allow everyone to use air/gas systems they developed. Does it really surprise you that, in an industry that gained so much of its momentum from that kind of good will, Smart Parts takes so much crap for its decision to patent something as simple as a microswitch?

Patenting the use of a microswitch in a gun is like patenting the power button on your television or patenting the bottle cap or patenting the steering wheel

How can it be possible? it restricts fair trade because it's an integral part of making the gun.

If someone was to patent the use of say LCD screens and send everyone who uses an LCD screen on anything a letter 6 years later stating that they would be charging royalties on XX date. How many people do you think would be happy at the LCD screen Nazis?

[angrysasquatch]

LCD screen Nazis?

I think the use of "Nazi" should be banned in this thread. This is nothing like facism, it's classic capitalist America.

I think "corporate thugs" works much better.

[ThePixelGuru]

Patenting the use of a microswitch in a gun is like patenting the power button on your television or patenting the bottle cap or patenting the steering wheel

How can it be possible? it restricts fair trade because it's an integral part of making the gun.

If someone was to patent the use of say LCD screens and send everyone who uses an LCD screen on anything a letter 6 years later stating that they would be charging royalties on XX date. How many people do you think would be happy at the LCD screen Nazis?

It's possible because the US Patent Office treats everything as an actual new idea when it's applied to paintball, even if it's been in use elsewhere for years. This actually brings us back on topic - the clamping cam-lock feedneck is an example of this. Been seen on bikes for decades, but when it's applied to a paintball hopper it's suddenly something "new." That's why I said Tom Kaye could have patented HPA and Palmer/Orr could have patented pneumatic rams, even though these have been in use elsewhere for years. That's why Smart Parts can patent the microswitch, and it's why you could probably walk down the aisle of your local hardware store and come up with a dozen paintball patent ideas. The point of the patent system is to work around other people's ideas so you're not copying anything, but when such an obvious, off the shelf solution is available, everyone tends to use that. If you can abuse the system to block everyone else from using the obvious, easy and cost effective solution, you can force the competition to either pay you to sell their product or quit selling it. We all know why Smart Parts did it - it's just business. The question, though: is that the kind of business you want taking over your sport?

Whew. Who wants a beer?

[paint magnet]

Every Pump was a nelson clone, so I fail to see your point. Also, it was the first thing they designed. And the black box... Has anyone ever done a video or a test to disprove it? No. Do I believe in the Magic Box?? Nope. I was a cocker guy, not a big fan of Mags anyways.. lol. Also, as far as the closed bolt VS open bolt debate on range. You have to realize that back in 1996, that is what everyone believed. It was not Smart Parts creating this hype. The Hype was ALREADY THERE! They were just using what the market was already saying. There were also powerfeed cockers back in the day. Can you say F/X Cocker?? Yes. I will agree somethings Smart Parts did WAS marketing hype, but not all of it.

Also, if a design was completely ripped off, there would have been an issue with DYE. Since by the time the Shocker SFT came out, DYE bought the patent from GEN-E. (Hence, Dye never really engineered a damn thing. How come they dont get flamed on?). We have an agreement with DYE anyways. Spool Valve type guns will always be similar. That is inherent. Also, we made the ION. DYE Basically knocked off the way an ION works and made the PMR. So, what is your point?

Also, powerlyte. I am unfamiliar with an issue with a window. I know they had a barrel with inserts, so that may have been the issue.

I don't know of any black box videos, probably since no one could post paintgun videos on the internet in 1994. IIRC there were a few private tests, which generally came to the conclusion that it was no better or worse than a stock Mag, kind of like the ANS Venturi bolt. I believe increases in range were attributed to spikes in the air supply rather than an innovative design.

I realize that other companies market their products by hyping them up. I don't spend my money on their products either.

Dye doesn't get flamed because they bought the patent, rather than stealing it. My understanding of how the PVI Shocker came about was this:

-PVI partners with SP with the agreement that SP will fund the development of the marker and facilitate production
-PVI makes a functional prototype and patents it
-SP pulls funding, forcing PVI to sell the patent to the highest bidder to recoup losses
-SP buys the patent at a much lower price, and without owing royalties to PVI

As for the Powerlyte barrel, Smart Parts could not go after them because the PowerLyte barrel inserts were threaded. Therefore, they went after them on the basis that they copied the window in the side of the barrel which allowed you to see which insert was in place without taking it off the gun.