Soon you will be supporting Smart Parts when you buy a Quick-Release feedneck...

[ThePixelGuru]

Oh wait, now this is interesting. Sean spent all this time in this thread trying to tell us that Smart Parts never said any of their markers shot farther, but somehow it slipped my mind that he spent a lot of time on PBN less than a month ago trying to convince them that the Shocker actually shot as far as a marker equipped with a Flatline barrel.

But don't take my word for it: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2673311

If a Paintball travels further from a shocker at the same speed, then a Spyder. Then, something must be happening to the ball to transfer the potential energy to kenetic faster. Which means something must be happening to the ball itself. If a shocker had backspin, you could see the lift. But I remember being shot by shockers many times and telling those people to chrono, and they were under the field speed. Which led me to belive that the ball was travelling faster at 30 ft then any other gun I had seen at the time. So, I personally think that is has something to do with the ball deformity, or ocsilation of some sort. The ball osciallting would make sense to be based on real world playing. But like I said, I got the ok here to set up the test shoot and video tape it all. Maybe I will set up a chrono as well at 30 ft away as well.

Honestly, I'm not surprised that Sean didn't bring this sort of thing up here. It's a lot easier to tell the PBN crowd that X marker shoots farther than Y marker than it is to tell the AO or MCB crowd the same thing. Well, up until Doc, Tom Kaye and manike show up. :rofl:

More to come after I re-read that thread; I could use a refresher on Smart Parts' "opinion" of physics.

[SR_matt]

saw that but didnt want to bring that into it.

while i know many thing it cant happen i do think different markers/pressures/systems shoot paint differently, maybe not huge amounts but i do think from my experience that there is some difference

-matt

[Beemer]

Oh wait, now this is interesting. Sean spent all this time in this thread trying to tell us that Smart Parts never said any of their markers shot farther, but somehow it slipped my mind that he spent a lot of time on PBN less than a month ago trying to convince them that the Shocker actually shot as far as a marker equipped with a Flatline barrel.

But don't take my word for it: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2673311


Honestly, I'm not surprised that Sean didn't bring this sort of thing up here. It's a lot easier to tell the PBN crowd that X marker shoots farther than Y marker than it is to tell the AO or MCB crowd the same thing. Well, up until Doc, Tom Kaye and manike show up. :rofl:

More to come after I re-read that thread; I could use a refresher on Smart Parts' "opinion" of physics.

But gee I aint seen him Post on MCB yet or did I just miss it?? TK cant post here till he clears it with me. :spit_take I can only discuss things here outside of the NDA I signed. Well not really. I was told I could post anything I wanted. The reason I dont is out of respect that some things I was told should not be repeated. But he wont care if I do.

Thing is AGD dont need no damage control.

Sounds like official SP damage control spokesperson to me.


Edit, to add

From 1996

Tom: Exactly. There's alot of products on the market that have limited usefulness. When we produce something, we want it to have a real function and a noticeable difference, not just a perceived difference. So, because we're near the end of the technology road, most of the things you'll see coming from us in the future, besides the P5, will be things like coloured rails and things like that. Even if we don't have the most modified gun in history, I want to go down knowing I gave real value.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230964

http://www.paintmagazine.com/wpaint2/mag.shtml

[AGD]

I am sure Sean is a nice guy and appears to be very smart. I have not responded to this thread because in fact he is paid by SP to spend company time responding to people on forums like this one etc. So in fact he is a talking advertisement no different than a sponsored team or ad in the magazine. There is really nothing to debate, no truths to tell or history to unveil when your talking to a paid spokesman.

SP is currently the most successful company in paintball. They are in fact the Leaders of the Free Paintball World (given that the larger companies are all loosing millions and trying to find ways to sell out). Sean what I would like to hear from you is, how is SP going to turn the industry around and bring more players into the game??

It is in their best interests to invest money into the industry since they will get it back out through business growth, product margin and the additional bonus of royalties. You mentioned a dealer program but thats what everyone does. Tell me about the investment for the LONG TERM that looses money today in the hopes of a better tomorrow.

AGD

[Beemer]

Tell me about the investment for the LONG TERM that looses money today in the hopes of a better tomorrow.AGD

Just when I was sure you wouldnt post in this thread. Thanks.

[custar]

You've completely misunderstood me...I meant it wouldn't be the first time they were issued a patent they didn't use. The only patents they receive royalities upon is the one old pVI Shocker electro patent (there's a continuation of it which is also used, but not cited). All the rest of them, ALL, just sit there. And interestingly, nearly half of them are for products they never even released....perfect example of spending considerable money, not defending it, and not receiving any return for it at all.
.

Not accurate as already pointed out re: the barrel kit patent. Also, does ANYONE think SP wouldn't try to enforce the gas-through-grip patent if it was granted?

Ydna - if Smart Parts intend to enforce this patent, then why would they even bother filing for it? Filing for patents isn't cheap, and patents are worthless if you don't defend them. So what benefit would SP gain from filing for a patent they won't enforce?

SP benefited tremendously from sitting on the narrow Shocker patent and then later enlarging it to catch quite a few companies which were producing markers that did not infringe on the Shocker patent as originally granted. To think SP would behave otherwise now is naive.

No one before even made an electronic gun...

Just the U.S. Navy. And who was Sandy Edelman?

I think the Mini is a great example of that.

I didn't think you would toss that up here considering the fuss over SP trying to "enlarge" some vague patent to cover gas-through-grip technology.

The luxe was a gun that has been in the R&D process for about 3 years. It has been in developement way before the mini was even thought of. So, it is a moot point. Also, the mini uses a hose while the Luxe has actual milled chambers throught the frame and body. Which is what the patent is for. So, also a moot point since it does NOT involve the mini.

The patent that involves the gas-through technology is infested with the term "preferably". If granted, that patent would clearly cover not just milled chambers but any other manner of conveyance of gas through the grip. Gotta love them legal weasel words like "preferably".

First of all, you cannot say so many sales reps hinting royalty numbers because I am the only one authorized to discuss this in public. None of the other sales reps really post and I am the only one that discusses it online or in public. As far as what I can talk about as far as numbers comes down to the way the non-disclosure is written. And within those bounds are what I post.

Royalty agreements usually involve a lump sum plus a per-unit charge. In the epic thread on PBN, Billy strongly hinted the lump sum demanded from AKA was considerable. This makes too much sense in the overall picture of things to be ignored. AKA was a direct competitor of SP for the high end market which was where Spyder and Kingman didn't have a near death grip at the time. Also, AKA's sales were never likely to be all that numerous as their markers involve tight tolerances that take time to mill correctly. Therefore, a sizable lump sum would have been as insurmountable for AKA as a significant per unit charge.

I'll lay some money here. Will SP waive that portion of its non-disclosure agreements just to the extent that those who entered into them can publicly disclose what SP demanded for royalties?

The Garnders are NOT lawyers.

Not currently-licensed lawyers. Not that there is anything wrong with being a lawyer.

Last, I want to clear up one other matter. The aluminum alloy used on the SFT Shockers is a bit more expensive than the harder alloys used on many other markers. That alloy was selected because it is softer and easier to mill. The use of the softer aluminum reduced milling costs by more than the difference in the costs of the aluminum. Unfortunately, the softer aluminum was more prone to strip out in the feedneck area and allowed the anno to rub off easier. The 6061 currently used on the Shocker is better quality material.

custar

[Hilltop Customs]

I am sure Sean is a nice guy and appears to be very smart. I have not responded to this thread because in fact he is paid by SP to spend company time responding to people on forums like this one etc. So in fact he is a talking advertisement no different than a sponsored team or ad in the magazine. There is really nothing to debate, no truths to tell or history to unveil when your talking to a paid spokesman.

SP is currently the most successful company in paintball. They are in fact the Leaders of the Free Paintball World (given that the larger companies are all loosing millions and trying to find ways to sell out). Sean what I would like to hear from you is, how is SP going to turn the industry around and bring more players into the game??

It is in their best interests to invest money into the industry since they will get it back out through business growth, product margin and the additional bonus of royalties. You mentioned a dealer program but thats what everyone does. Tell me about the investment for the LONG TERM that looses money today in the hopes of a better tomorrow.

AGD

I dont think its talking/responding to him that most people are interested in, its pointing out to him how many times he is completely wrong/misinformed. But no matter how blatently wrong he is, he somehow manages to weasel his way around it and somehow comeout in the end stating something good about the company he works for...or in the worst case, something non-negative about the company he works for and the products they make.

I find it more fun to just read what he says and laugh to myself at all the contradictions he makes. I would rather just laugh then spend time trying to address a typing advertisement as you put it. Many of his arguments dont require a rebuttal, they dont make any sense to begin with.

and dont forget kids, shoebox shockers shoot farther....i dont have anyway to prove it...but you can trust me I work for SP....shoebox shockers shoot farther. <----i'm sorry I had to :rofl:

[pump]

he somehow manages to weasel his way around it and somehow comeout in the end stating something good about the company he works for

he never engages fully into an argument, so he never needs to answer the hard questions

instead of saying that the OTP barrel could be considered a sleeve, he says its short, not really the argument that is a real point of contention

[Ninjeff]

The heat has really been turned up on SP this past year. I cant think of any other company that has to have someone travel all over the interwebs with a fire proof suit to defend the "good name" that is SP.

I think Sean seems like a pretty likable guy, and heck, he is just doing his job. But SP must really be feeling the retaliation as of late if they send him over here. Talk about the "Lions Den".

[Coralis]

I wonder if all those royalty checks provide enough money for a full time spin doctor anyway.

[RogueFactor]

I think Sean seems like a pretty likable guy, and heck, he is just doing his job. But SP must really be feeling the retaliation as of late if they send him over here. Talk about the "Lions Den".

He wouldnt be very good or successful at his job if he werent likeable. Im sure Smart Parts wouldnt hire an unlikeable guy to do this job...kinda defeats the purpose wouldnt it?

[ThePixelGuru]

Thing is AGD dont need no damage control.

Sounds like official SP damage control spokesperson to me.

Exactly. You don't need a damage control if you don't run around pissing everyone off. And no, Sean never tried that on MCB (to the best of my knowledge). They're wise to the whole physics thing, too. :rofl:

Good to see TK chime in, though. He's like the death knell for Smart Parts threads.

[Beemer]

Talk about the "Lions Den".

Ya thats what I thought at first. Then I took it as a compliment. Its not about ROF its about strategy and tactics.

he never engages fully into an argument, so he never needs to answer the hard questions

Yup, thats rule number one. Dont engage.

Oh ya what was the JDN2, Shawn? Who built it and who took it to market and how did that happen?

[phatty123]

it will probably get pulled for language.. but I do love this guy.

[Hilltop Customs]

WOOT I got to see the youtube video before it gets taken away!

Wow, I had no idea about the boards and the epoxying.