Open discussion for unrealistic pro-classic replacements?

[JesseB]

Hate to pull this back on topic (yes, I've got a 10/22 as well and love it) but AGD will eventually go out of business. Key word, eventually. Paintball will be around for a long time, AGD will be lucky to last another 5 or 10 years at this rate. First off, lets say there is nothing wrong with that. The company is currently being run out of a basement and is still able to generate considerable interest and revenue from ourselves and our AO peers. Secondly, even if AGD folds tomorrow, it will leave behind a dedicated corps of fans, several quality aftermarket sources, and an incredible legacy of guiding this sport through it's infancy.

That said, why not make a push. Borrow the money, design something with a shot at working, and try to push it hard on the market. Worst case scenario, and probably most likely scenario, it will fail horribly and the company will file for bankruptcy and close it doors for good.

But you gotta play to win folks, and I'd rather see AGD go out with a bang than a wimper.

I'd rather see them not take drastic measures and stick their neck out for no reason.

[JesseB]

ULE body/rail intelliframe and classic valve for around 300

X2!!

[oozeeh]

heh. you guys are funny.

i would like to see a highly polished SS a.i.r. valve that matches the SS body they make. also bring back the stars! it was cool when you have oh so many stars. maybe a black classic valve? oohh i want SS rails too. my grandson will be able to shoot the same mag i am shooting today if it was made of all SS parts. just replace orings!
also, that would be sexy.

if it was an xball tourney, i would rather shoot a g3 (or any other '08 electro-pneumatic marker specially an sl8r) unless everyone else is shooting a mag.

dave,
shoots a mag & aims for ion grips frames.

[paint magnet]

Strange that I've never been to a field that cares.
and they are all insured.... weird... just cant use anything other than semi.

Well, when little Timmy's mom buys him a new Ion/Rail/G3/Fusion/Shocker whatever the gun of the minute is these days, and then he goes and shoots his 12-year-old Tippmann-toting buddies 11 times in the head because he either didn't mean to pull the trigger, it was bouncy, or in ramping mode, then lots of places should care.

If there is an ROF limit imposed on "pro" teams who are well-accustomed to getting shot, do you think the average walk-on player wants to walk into that kind of paint stream from someone who doesn't know when to stop shooting?

you sir are completely irrational and just trying to start poop.

see that is a narrow minded fan boy perspective and while it's fine and acceptable in this environment it's just not a logical way to make a decision in the real world. The G3 is definitely a better buy than a new mag.

And remember the thread says unrealistic... be a little more open minded you jerks.

So let's review: You accused someone else of trying to start arguments after calling names, accusing anyone who likes Mags (on an AGD website, no less) of being a "fanboy" and not making logical decisions because they choose to shoot something else than what you feel is the bestlightestfastestsmallestcaseoffa68/45shiny new gun that's been out for a few weeks? And then told us to be more open-minded?

[JesseB]

So let's review: You accused someone else of trying to start arguments after calling names, accusing anyone who likes Mags (on an AGD website, no less) of being a "fanboy" and not making logical decisions because they choose to shoot something else than what you feel is the bestlightestfastestsmallestcaseoffa68/45shiny new gun that's been out for a few weeks? And then told us to be more open-minded?

nope said your statement about the gun having to be around 20 years before you would admit that it's a better value than a mag was a fan boy statement I didn't call "anyone who shoots a mag" a fan boy. Hell if that's the case then I've been a fan boy for the last 6 years and I'm fairly proud of the fact . I recommend them to people all the time but no one wants to pay for them because they don't feel they are getting their money's worth that's not me talking that's the average paintballer who works hard for their money not the kids you are talking about who get mommy and daddy to buy them a gun every time they change.

Keep trying to flip it and make it look like I'm hating on mags instead of stating the obvious. THERE ARE "BETTER" GUNS TO BUY FOR CHEAPER. THE SALES NUMBERS PROVE IT. LOOK AT ANY GUN IN THE SAME PRICE RANGE AS AN RT PRO AND THE SALES NUMBERS DONT EVEN COMPARE! These guns may not be your preference but your opinion is not the only one that matters.

I don't care what you guys want to shoot how fast or slow or how many years you still want to carry the same gun it makes no difference to me and I'm not saying any of that is bad... I don't feel I insulted anyone or their gun choice... Just stating my opinion and getting ripped a new one for it because you think I'm bashing something when I never really said anything negative....

Seems we have more responsible people at my local fields I don't see many cases of people getting ripped... much less a kid.... But I've never heard any field around here tell anyone to cap their ROF at tourneys, practice days or rec ball. I think that might just be in your neck of the woods where people aren't responsible enough to respect their fellow players. Or you have a bunch of whiny babies who think that ROF means that someone is going to totally dominate them so they cried to the owner of the field to impose a cap. Either way I'm glad I don't play there.

If there is an ROF limit imposed on "pro" teams who are well-accustomed to getting shot, do you think the average walk-on player wants to walk into that kind of paint stream from someone who doesn't know when to stop shooting?

What the heck does that mean? I cant even decipher what that means.... lets break it down if ROF limit is imposed on pro teams
and pro teams = used to getting shot
do I believe average walk ons want to walk into that kind of paint stream
that kind of paint stream = pro ROF cap.
and the person doesnt know when to stop shooting...

well im confused...
only cap I've ever heard of on a pro team was for Ramping and xball modes but as far as I know they can shoot semi only uncapped.

[dstud2000]

The pro classics may be out of stock, but as far as I can tell the mini mag is still available which for for a beginner is still a solid platform. I am fine with the efficiency of any of my mags, most places I play at around me are all day air as part of entry anyways. If I play outlaw ball at my field I built, I can use CO2 no problems on any of my classic valved mags, or just simply unscrew one bolt, disconnect the macro ad swap out my xvalve for one of the classic valves and continue with the same gun. If I really needed to be able to shoot a case off of one air fill, well then I am shooting too much. So I would say make a tiered market for the mag.

ULE classic: ULE body, classic valve made from aluminum and incorporates a ligther trigger pull and is CO2 and HPA ready, single trigger or dble trigger carbon frame, 1 piece barrel, basic bottomline setup and a foregrip. Of course give the upgraded options for lvl 10, intelliframe, yframe, warp body, warpfeed. Base gun would say be in the $275 range with the whatever upgrades adding on the price. Maybe a players kit like tippmann and Kingman do, tank, mask, and hopper for another $25 more to get new players into the game a bit easier.

Tac One classic: basically same as Ule Classic but with Tac One Body withroughly the same price of $275.

RT ULE Custom: current RT ULE Custom offered by AGD at current price

Tac One RT: current Tac One offered by AGD at current price.

This would give more choice to beginners and seasoned players as well as the ones who stick with CO2. With all setups made mostly of aluminum, those who are into the lighter weight will be happy and those who want color option will be set too. Then if those who want to upgrade to the xvalve could do the reg swap program and be all set. Then for those who want to start right at the top also have their option as well.

The only real investment of time and manufacturing would be of the new classic valve and a dble trigger carbon frame. The rest of the components should all be off the shelf items for AGD.


Darn if only I had the financial backing to invest into that.......

[paint magnet]

nope said your statement about the gun having to be around 20 years before you would admit that it's a better value than a mag was a fan boy statement I didn't call "anyone who shoots a mag" a fan boy. Hell if that's the case then I've been a fan boy for the last 6 years and I'm fairly proud of the fact . I recommend them to people all the time but no one wants to pay for them because they don't feel they are getting their money's worth that's not me talking that's the average paintballer who works hard for their money not the kids you are talking about who get mommy and daddy to buy them a gun every time they change.

Keep trying to flip it and make it look like I'm hating on mags instead of stating the obvious. THERE ARE "BETTER" GUNS TO BUY FOR CHEAPER. THE SALES NUMBERS PROVE IT. LOOK AT ANY GUN IN THE SAME PRICE RANGE AS AN RT PRO AND THE SALES NUMBERS DONT EVEN COMPARE! These guns may not be your preference but your opinion is not the only one that matters.

I don't care what you guys want to shoot how fast or slow or how many years you still want to carry the same gun it makes no difference to me and I'm not saying any of that is bad... I don't feel I insulted anyone or their gun choice... Just stating my opinion and getting ripped a new one for it because you think I'm bashing something when I never really said anything negative....

If I have misunderstood your intentions then I genuinely apologize. It just came across (to me, at least) as being rather one-sided. As for it being a "fanboy" statement, then I will have to disagree with you, for many different reasons, not necessarily pertaining to Mags or any other gun. My 20 year statement was in reference to the fact that it's cheaper to buy a marker, whether it be a Mag, cocker, or whatever else you choose, that will last for a while. In addition to becoming more familiar with the marker, you also save money by not buying the latest greatest gun that comes along.

I have shot the G3 and do acknowledge that yes, it seems to be well-made. However, I just can't see it, or any other of the current generation markers lasting for 20 years, and thus the basis for me choosing the AutoMag.

Seems we have more responsible people at my local fields I don't see many cases of people getting ripped... much less a kid.... But I've never heard any field around here tell anyone to cap their ROF at tourneys, practice days or rec ball. I think that might just be in your neck of the woods where people aren't responsible enough to respect their fellow players. Or you have a bunch of whiny babies who think that ROF means that someone is going to totally dominate them so they cried to the owner of the field to impose a cap. Either way I'm glad I don't play there.



What the heck does that mean? I cant even decipher what that means.... lets break it down if ROF limit is imposed on pro teams
and pro teams = used to getting shot
do I believe average walk ons want to walk into that kind of paint stream
that kind of paint stream = pro ROF cap.
and the person doesnt know when to stop shooting...

well im confused...
only cap I've ever heard of on a pro team was for Ramping and xball modes but as far as I know they can shoot semi only uncapped.

It means that if pro players have a 13.3 bps cap, why would inexperienced players want to play a game where someone is shooting 18 bps? Several times I've seen first-time players get scared away from the game by some idiot who thinks it's cool to shoot as fast as he possibly can. These players often leave soon after, or play amongst themselves and never move. They either never come back, or come back with a fast new gun and do the same thing to other players.

I'll admit, I haven't kept up with all the rules pro teams abide by now. I remember it used to be 13 bps, then went to uncapped semi, then 15 bps cap with ramping modes, and now I think it's back to 13.3 bps. Not sure if that's NXL, PSP, NPPL, CFOA, whatever. I just think it's a good idea that can carry over into rec play and know of a few fields which have implemented it with success. In general, it tends to make for a much more casual atmosphere, and one in which players are not in an "arms race," if you will, to shoot faster than each other. I've often seen players hosing paint simply because they lacked the skill to get eliminations by any other way than intimidating the other team by ROF.

A bps cap doesn't solve all issues, no. But it's a good idea for those who don't have the respect not to overshoot other players. Yes, it's still quite possible to overshoot someone, but too often it is overlooked because "the balls were already in the air." It's also an issue of respect, and a way of leveling the playing field. Walk-on games are a lot more fun when players choose sides according to skill level rather than whose gun shoots fastest.

[PhoenixWolf]

Here's what's starting to worry me: some of these fully mechanical guns CAN hit 15+ BPS if they're set up right. You cannot cap these guns, except with the loader. Does this ultimately mean mechanicals will be banned from major events?

[paint magnet]

I know the AutoResponse frame was banned...but then again that was in the early 1990s.

I don't think there is a rule which states your gun has to be capped at anything, so long as you do not shoot over the limit. In theory, if you have a gun on uncapped semi and you can shoot 18 bps, but only shoot 10 bps, you're fine. I would imagine it's the same with mech guns.

[questionful]

Here's what's starting to worry me: some of these fully mechanical guns CAN hit 15+ BPS if they're set up right.

As long as it's not adjustable without an allen key or a swap of parts, I don't think that will be a problem.