AGD in the future.

[DanMan]

We have seen that with the gforce frame that a well enginnered pneuframe can be walkable out of the box and easy for non gearheads to work with. Forget trying to ressurect the the emag. As much as I would like an e/xmag the average person wants to slip in a 9volt and go. Even better if there is no battery. A intelli (or even the gforce frame) frame modified to work with the gforce internals could be easily marketed to people. First to the people who alreay have a mag and then as a stock feature of rt pros. If you can get the price down to $150 or so then you will have a real killer.

[Ninjeff]

No, I disagree. I think given the right circumstances and choices AGD could easily do well again. The question is just at what cost.

Basically, with Xmod an E/Xmag is functionally the same (if not better) than most modern markers. There are three things that would keep people from buying them, though: weight, appearance and reputation. I'm not saying any of those are justified, I'm just saying that's how it is for the majority of paintballers. A revamped Emag along the lines of a DIY electro-pneumatic 'mag could be a lot lighter, a little smaller, and with a little cosmetic work remind people of nothing about the old Emags. That plus a new marketing campaign would probably move a lot of new 'mags.

'Mags still have this reputation for being dinosaurs, and for the most part the factory 'mags are pretty boring looking to most people. I had a friend of mine trying to convince me to ditch my 'mag and get a modern electro - as soon as I showed him a Karta 'mag with an aftermarket frame he changed his mind pretty quickly and even started thinking about building one. Only after he saw the spiffy Karta 'mag did he actually start to listen about the ULT, X-Valve, Level 10 and the like. As long as it looked "boring" to him, he was convinced the 'mag had nothing to offer.

As far as Tom Kaye goes, there's no reason AGD needs him specifically. TK has a lot of virtues that meshed particularly well with AGD, such as an uncompromising desire to design exactly what is needed and the willingness to go the extra mile to make sure the design is as good as it can be. All AGD needs is a frontman and lead designer who isn't satisfied with a design or approach that's just "good enough" - a rare and extremely desirable quality to be sure, but not one unique to Mr. Kaye.

Those arent specific to Mr. Kaye, but i always felt that what kept AGD going all those years was both the quality AND ingenuity of the products. From the 6-pack, constant air, and HPA to the unique (for the time) valve system, LVL 10 and so on. I always felt that pushing the limits as far as design and tech is what AGD really was all about. In the early years at least

[LK-13]

and who says that Tom Kaye wont become interested again if new blood were to be transfused into AGD?

anyone with the heart to be willing to put the cash into the company will know that TK's blessing will keep the existing customers coming back, and new blood, with new ideas (and money) is really all the old girl needs.

as i said, if i were to win it big, yes, absolutely I would enter into talks with AGD and the resurrection would begin.

but I'm not holding my breath.

so I'm building guns, most of them based on the Mag platform.
who knows maybe something I'm up to might catch on........
and promptly get patented by the Gardners.....

can someone please shoot those guys, with something more potent than PAINTBALLS.

[Stealthgerbil]

i think that as long as valves are being made, automags will survive. what AGD really needs to do is just allow anyone to make parts for automags. that way, you could either buy the valve from AGD and go buy an aftermarket body, rail, pneumatic grip frame, and barrel. Or someone could start a company that buys the valves from AGD and uses aftermarket parts to build them.

I could easily see a pneumag making a comeback. Its just that there really isn't a central place to buy a prebuilt, setup pneumag. One could easily generate interest for mags by selling prebuilt karta and tac-1 pneumags on PBnation or PBreview. Its just that when someone goes to the website and sees the cheapest mag being around $300, it turns them off, especially when they see that its just a mechanical marker. Pneumags are incredibly fast and a lot of people would be interested in one, because they are durable and they dont use batteries.

ANother part of the market which mags would be great is for milsim and scenario game lovers. However there is a lack of milsim parts for the tac1. It really needs nice looking gasthrough magazine (or a fake magazine that slips over a regulator) and a good stock. Maybe even a faux m16 barrel shroud.

However we know that AGD isn't going to make these parts. It would be up to a 3rd party vendor to do it. That said, the rewards could be great but no one has the balls to attempt it.

[LegumeOfTerror]

i always though they should extend the back of the Tac One bodies and thread them for AR-15 buffer tubes so you could attach actual rifle stocks to it. the problem is then you would block the reg and you cant change the velocity with an allen key unless they cut a slot in the bottom or something.

[Stealthgerbil]

i always though they should extend the back of the Tac One bodies and thread them for AR-15 buffer tubes so you could attach actual rifle stocks to it. the problem is then you would block the reg and you cant change the velocity with an allen key unless they cut a slot in the bottom or something.

this could be solved by add a wheel like dial that goes into the back of the valve and sits between the valve and the stock, ideally allowing one to turn the dial to change the pressure.

Alternatively you could always have the stock mount over the rails and the back of the tac-1 body. It would pretty much slide over the back and then have additional rails on the stock so if you want to use it you could. It would widen the body a little though. The rails over rails would be a little redundant though but that would allow you to set your pressure and then slide the stock on and tighten it.

[azza]

Wow its been a long time since Ive made a post... But anywho.....

IMO here are some things that AGD could do to reinvent themselves and get back market share would be:
-Single piece bodies. IE: body and rail in a single piece, not 2.
-Minimize hosing, maybe even go the way of the Invert Mini and use internal airways through the grip.
-Price point, 'nuff said about that.
-Look into alternative body materials/grades. Seeing as its possible to buy delrin 'cocker bodies. Related to price point and could then be used to differentiate between lower end and higher end markers.
-A new non "sear tripper" based e-mag which uses easily replaceable and cheap batteries.
-Get markers into the hands of sponsored scenario or tourney teams.
-Affordable "dress up" kits to make mags more appealing in the scenario market

Or failing all that, keep doing what they are doing now and start making accessories/upgrades for non AGD markers.

Cheers
Azza

[ThePixelGuru]

E-X mags are less effecient, more expensive, and no more reliable than modern electros, on top of that they use a propeitary battery system and have little to no aftermarket support.

Please enlighten me on their fuctional superiority to modern markers.

Efficiency might matter if you didn't have all-day air at pretty much every field. Regardless, most of that comes from not shooting as deep into the tank as most other markers, something which can be minimized by using a 4500psi tank rather than a 3000psi.

That proprietary battery is probably one of the best batteries in all of paintball. Besides, I'd rather have one proprietary battery that I can recharge and will last me days of play than drop a fortune on 9v batteries. But yeah, I think that maybe a few rechargeable AA batteries in a more conventional-looking foregrip would be an improvement if we were redesigning the thing (which is what this thread is about).

Aftermarket support? Kicks the crap out of pretty much any out-of-production marker in terms of aftermarket support. AGD still techs them, and there are a ton of people on these forums still making parts and servicing these markers. That's not even a function of the marker, though, that's a function of the market.

How can you claim it's no more reliable? I'd be willing to bet that percentage-wise there are a hell of a lot more Emags still working than there are, say, Shockers from the same time period. Besides, if you have a problem with the electronics you can switch the marker into mechanical mode and keep going. Name another marker that does that.

Keep in mind the HES trigger so that the system's actually closed. Less crap in your trigger frame = fewer problems. I think the only other marker to do this is the Mini that's storming the paintball market these days. Hmm, what did they base the design of that marker on?

As far as cost goes, some people are actually willing to pay for quality rather than the latest flavor of the month. Take the price of pretty much any marker and divide by the years of service you'll get out of it, and suddenly the Emag becomes a great value.

And to top it all off, they come stock with the fastest valve system in paintball. No other valve will even come close without severe shootdown. Zak Vetter videos, anyone? What other marker can do that?

Come to think of it, why are you even here if you think so little of the 'mag? Go troll somewhere else, please.

[ikfube]

This Punk Cat talk very much!

I think the answer to this thread already been answered with the Invert Mini. Has everything the electronic mag does plus more for less monies.

[tech-chan]

This Punk Cat talk very much!

I think the answer to this thread already been answered with the Invert Mini. Has everything the electronic mag does plus more for less monies.

But can you beat an invert mini against a tree several times and play with no adverse affects?

[punkncat]

This Punk Cat talk very much!

????? Do I know you? I have to wonder what would make you say such a thing, as it seems a bit deragatory. Am I missing some wonderful insight, from a guy with less than 10 posts, and a 30 word reply? I am pretty sure I didn't...

I think the answer to this thread already been answered with the Invert Mini. Has everything the electronic mag does plus more for less monies.

The Invert, while reminicent of the Emag with the modular foregrip, is not hard to consider a "replacement" of sorts. I personally purchased one because of the similarities. But put one in your hand and use it and you see that just a very slight visible likeness is just about where that ends.
The Mini is a decent little performer, and a great price, but to go so far as to say it replaces the emag is a great leap. I have understood that one of the designers of the Mini was the same guy that helped with the design of the Emag. However the reasons for the similarities are completly different. The Emag needed the big foregrip for the large battery pack. The Mini uses it to hold the electronics. One, and obviously, due to the internal air routing through the grip frame. I speculate that there are other reasons for the setup, but at the expense of looking really stupid putting forth my guesstimation on the subject I will leave it to myself.

[BigEvil]

How about a new emag frame, that is similar in function to the old one, but, with better ergonomics, and can run off of a 9v?

[snoopay700]

How about a new emag frame, that is similar in function to the old one, but, with better ergonomics, and can run off of a 9v?

That would probably eat 9vs like candy, if it ran off a 9v you would need it to have a much smaller solenoid, and thus it can't operate like the old one. Then again i could be wrong, but i would think if you had a capacitor that could hold enough charge to fire the marker it would eat batteries like crazy.

[BigEvil]

That would probably eat 9vs like candy, if it ran off a 9v you would need it to have a much smaller solenoid, and thus it can't operate like the old one. Then again i could be wrong, but i would think if you had a capacitor that could hold enough charge to fire the marker it would eat batteries like crazy.

I have a very fertile imagination. Sometimes I even use it for things other than abusing Rudz

[68magOwner]

Efficiency might matter if you didn't have all-day air at pretty much every field.

Effieiency also matters when you are trying to get the most effective setup possible for what your doing. I know plenty of players who would like to be able to have the weight and feel of a 45/45, but, still be able to shoot the 6,7, or 8 pods they carry onto the field for a game.

That proprietary battery is probably one of the best batteries in all of paintball. Besides, I'd rather have one proprietary battery that I can recharge and will last me days of play than drop a fortune on 9v batteries.

If the cost of 9 volts are really getting to you, use rechargables. The emag battery is larger and heavier than a battery for a paintball marker should be.

Aftermarket support? Kicks the crap out of pretty much any out-of-production marker in terms of aftermarket support. AGD still techs them, and there are a ton of people on these forums still making parts and servicing these markers. That's not even a function of the marker, though, that's a function of the market.

Sure you can buy aftermarket parts for your mags, keep them up and running fine. But at the same time, if you own a shocker, dm, ego, ect, you can walk up the vendor at any national event and have that marker repaired on the spot for free. Its a pretty nice thing to be able to do. I had a new noid and all new orings put in my dm6 last event just for kicks without DYE ever complaining or asking for money.

How can you claim it's no more reliable? I'd be willing to bet that percentage-wise there are a hell of a lot more Emags still working than there are, say, Shockers from the same time period. Besides, if you have a problem with the electronics you can switch the marker into mechanical mode and keep going. Name another marker that does that.

Because its just not. I own a mag, I have owned several mags. They are outstanding markers. But, no more reliable than any other marker I have owned and properly maintained. As far as being able to flip into mechanical mode, thats fun, but, super practical? Not really. Beyond that, I cant remember any time ever where the electronic components of any of my markers kept me from being able to use it.

Keep in mind the HES trigger so that the system's actually closed. Less crap in your trigger frame = fewer problems.

If you really think the HES trigger system is a more problem free system than a standard microswitch, you have another thing comming. It just isnt. Plain and simple.

As far as cost goes, some people are actually willing to pay for quality rather than the latest flavor of the month. Take the price of pretty much any marker and divide by the years of service you'll get out of it, and suddenly the Emag becomes a great value.

I honestly have yet to encounter low quality crap from any of the high end markers out today.

And to top it all off, they come stock with the fastest valve system in paintball. No other valve will even come close without severe shootdown. Zak Vetter videos, anyone? What other marker can do that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecn4637uTmc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfeoCESktVE&feature=related

so, mags are no longer untouchable, and these markers dont need a scuba tank to shoot that fast......

Come to think of it, why are you even here if you think so little of the 'mag? Go troll somewhere else, please.

To say that the mag is not the end all be all of modern paintball markers is not to diminish what it is. Its just to point out that realistically, automags are not as light, efficient or practical to use at a national level of competition as other markers that are readily available now a days.