what do you want in a marker????

[Hilltop Customs]

alright you may have seen my other threads with the title "whats your favorite.....?"

I'm thinking those threads were too specific, so here comes another one......

generally......what do you want in a marker????

2 obvious ones by the market are wieght and size.....they are both common goals, other than standouts like AKA vikings(I have to admit Ive always loved since I picked up at the IAO in 03) the market has tended toward this.

I know everyone hates smart parts right??? the only way to get around them is innovation....come up with some idea which seems stpid and throw it out there, this is the only way the market will advance past what we have now.

I for one am a believer in innovation,ex: I present an idea, someone else builds on it, and I build on their idea in return.

My idea for awhile has been go back to mechanical, as you may have seen in other threads that I have posted in I am a firm believer in 1 shot 1 pull, especailly when we can have pneumags capable of ROF similar to electonic-semi markers. What is the purpose of ramping other than to waste paint???? wouldnt you rather have a variable rate of fire rather than ramping up to 13bps(or whatever it is now) instanly after you pull more than 3 shots a second???

IDK ive always played semi over ramping, even when I had the ramping option......if you feel differently feel free to tear me a new butthole.....I honestly just want to learn about others opinions from this thread.


just to start it off, for me the number 1 goal would be to not limit the ROF, or the volume of paint(around 200 balls be4 reloading) while reducing profile of the marker. Anyone feel differently??

edit: sorry for cussing, didnt realize the other word for butt was still considered a curse

[y0da900]

I know everyone hates smart parts right??? the only way to get around them is innovation....come up with some idea which seems stpid and throw it out there, this is the only way the market will advance past what we have now.

I for one am a believer in innovation,ex: I present an idea, someone else builds on it, and I build on their idea in return.

My idea for awhile has been go back to mechanical, as you may have seen in other threads that I have posted in I am a firm believer in 1 shot 1 pull, especailly when we can have pneumags capable of ROF similar to electonic-semi markers. What is the purpose of ramping other than to waste paint???? wouldnt you rather have a variable rate of fire rather than ramping up to 13bps(or whatever it is now) instanly after you pull more than 3 shots a second???

That was some of the meaning behind starting the open source paintball marker subforum/group. It seems to have lost steam though, I'm the only one that's posted in there in months. There are two separate threads that I've started in there you might want to take a look through.

That said, I want efficiency and reliability. Prefferably without batteries. And a design that is just plain cool. Not just another poppet valve or tweaked version of the Matrix.

[ManInBlack]

I say ergonomics are very important. It has to feel balanced in my hands, the trigger needs to be where I can reach it comfortably, and aiming needs to feel natural. I'll take these over light weight and high ROF any day.

[Toll]

15 bps - I don't care about breakout/etc. Standardized modes

Eyes that work and work well.

1k off a 45/45

Cocker threaded

Multiple frame options so that it feels GOOD in my hand without me having to put shop time in.

Made in Canada/USA - I will pay the extra money for quality

Stock equipment that is GOOD. Barrel I don't really care about because I can assure you that I will be using a different one but stock regs have to be good. Stock trigger has to be nice.

Microswitched. NO MORE OPTO SWITCHES ~.~

Equa-Link style cable that mounts to USB so I may tweak things without needing to use LEDS. Lacking that, I want an LCD screen to let me fine tune dwell/delay/etc.

Balance. Please no more milled down tubes to make things as light as possible. I want a marker that is balanced in my hands and gives me confidence when I am switching hands, running and gunning/etc

[trevorjk]

i wouldnt mind some wall hacks or a UAV transponder so that i can see where the enemy is on the field even if they are hiding.

[Stayhuge]

For me, these are the characteristics in order:

1) Accuracy
2) Reliability
3) Efficiency
4) Weight
5) Appearance

Right now, I have a Phoenix Mag with a Chimera frame. I have been using a Freak with SS inserts, which has been dead on for me. I just bought an APEX Freak Tip to see how much more range I could get, and I was really supprised. It gave me an edge in Woodsball against the others. Flat Lines can still out shoot me, but I have better accuracy then them at a distance, and more distance then the regular players. This weekend I am going to work on getting some pics up of my mag with the barrel. Supprisingly, it looks pretty bad ***.

[snoopay700]

What im designing right now.

[Hilltop Customs]

Thanks for the replies so far guys! They are all great....keep them coming, and feel free to re-emphasize or build on what others have already pointed out.

y0da900: I think I read every post in the open source sub-forum, I cant remember if I posted in there or not, but I do remember thinking that any new thread started in there was pretty much dead before it was posted since it is kind of a hidden sub-forum of AO. I mean Im sure there are some people that would notice a new post in there, but I know there would be a good possibility of me missing a new post in there, and I'm really interested in the topic of the sub-forum. I will be posting a few things in there pretty soon though.

ManInBlack: you just made me very happy, I was hoping someone would come out recognizing ergo early on. So I have to ask, what makes you comfortable/uncomfortable with a maker? Does a stacked tube marker suit sighting better than a single tube design? What if you could sight directly down the barrel the top of the barrel with no obstruction? Rails/aftermarket drop forwards allow for stock adjustment, is a fixed ASA point like the Mini's a real drawback, or are you willing to buy a tank to suit your needs?

Toll: Nice list, very specific! From the sounds of it, you are mostly interested in electronic markers, would you ever consider buying a mechanical? If not, what do you see as their limitations? Also, you mention balanced....what do you consider a good balance? Would be a marker that can be held comfortably with single handed gripping only the frame? or would it be a marker, which when held shouldered in the firing position, can be comfortably supported with only the foregrip? or any other description you can come up with.

trevorjk: I'll get to work on an integrated UAV HUD mask right away

Stayhuge: Thats interesting, I've never looked too much at the apex, have to give it another look. I like your list because it makes decisions about trade offs easy to answer. Say a change in design will decrease efficiency, but increase consistency...your list would say you want the best consistency even with a slight decrease in effiency. I have a question for you too....I see reliability is high on your list, reliability and amount of maintenance are closely related so: When does reliability/maintenance become too much of a hassle? (is lubing a before a day of play too much to ask?)

snoopay700: do tell


I'm half tempted to post this over at peanut butter nation just to get the AGG responses, but I just cant bring myself to venture over there

[Toll]

Mechanical limitations are primarily because the system is complicated compared to electronic and not nearly as modular in most cases.


Eyes are a primary concern because I hate breaking paint. Level 10 isn't fool proof.


I find a marker that I can fire with one hand and have it be comfortable to be my preference just because of the way I hold it/shoot. I love 90 degree frames and single trigger ramping is generally speaking awesome.

[Ninjeff]

Modular.

Of all the things great about Automags, if im being honest, i mean REALLY honest, my favorite thing is that they are modular. No muss, no fuss, with a few exceptions, one mag can swap parts with just about any other mag. Sears, valves, bolts, frames, rails, bodies, foregrips etc etc.

It keeps the "custom" bug going.

[Hilltop Customs]

Toll: I agree about eyes and breaking paint, electronic eyes are the best solution out there, but do you consider a force fed hopper acceptable as preventing chops? I built my ep mag planning on adding eyes, but between lvl 10 and a halo, I havent had a single chop in 3 cases(i know its not much, but I havent had a chance to play much this year) You bring up a great point about ramping with a single trigger

Ninjeff: I agree, but where universal parts really shine through is over years of production and creation of aftermarket parts market. Constantly updating the design with slight changes(yearly updates) has the benifit of producing yearly sales for the creator of the marker, but has the drawback of damaging the profitability of aftermarket parts since they can only be applied to a single year of a marker. Aftermarket parts are what allows a user to make their marker their own.


How do you guys feel about a MTO(made to order) marker. You order it direct from the manufacture, specifying what you want.....hopper or warp fed, grip frame angle, (What would you want for options, be realistic?) AGD started doing this through their website, but implemented late in their sales life. How about a service that allows you to ship direct to an annodizer(or done in house) for the color/design of your choice?

[Toll]

Eyes are so common and "easy" now that it seems a shame not to have them on there in the grand scheme of things. I like the extra little insurance policy incase something goes wrong. Never hurts to have them.

More over depending who you are pitching the idea to might not be as level 10 confident as we are or maybe they want the efficiency assosciated with level 7...Good luck getting an agglet to look at a marker that doesnt have atleast 1 set of eyes -_-

[tech-chan]

I want a mechanical option for single shot and three shot burst in a comfortable and ergonomic tactical package. Which so happens to be what I'm working on.....

[Sundown]

Well it really depends on your targeted players. Someone who plays pro speedball will not want the same things as someone who plays only woodsball. And ROF would be one of the things :)
I like reliability, but I also take car of my gun before and after each game. So it's not because I do not maintain my gun :)
I also like accuracy, but the barrel and paint is a huge factor for this :) Not really the gun itself.
Ergonomic is also important as I want my gun to feel good and natural.
I also want my gun mechanical.
Efficiency is good, but not that important as I don't shoot that much in a game. But a plus :)
Weight is plus. But I will not limit my choice to the lightest markers out there.
Appearance is cool, but to a limit. It will not help my game :) haha

[Sundown]

I want a mechanical option for single shot and three shot burst in a comfortable and ergonomic tactical package. Which so happens to be what I'm working on.....

You working on a project...nice. And I also like your options :)
Do you have a thread on this?