"NEWS" Nelson Paint to continue producing oil based paints!

[drg]

On the ground on the edges of the bunker and splattering up? A LOT. Especially near the edges where people tend to shoot from. Thats the honestly answer. At this point it seems you are simply attacking the obvious for whatever reason.

The fact is this. At some point we are going to have to answer a question.

Did what you were doing have an obvious environmental impact?

Was there a readily available substitute that had less of an impact?

Was this commercially available and easily attainable?

Was it available in the same price range?

Did you, or should you, know about it?


Then, after hearing yes to all of them you are going to be asked one more question.

Why?

I hope you have a better answer than the arguments you have presented here. And when you tell me the cost was different, and the cost difference was less than 10-20%, I hope you set aside all the money you saved.

Remember, the makers of asbestos ceiling tiles were following manufacturing standards of the time.

Does paint splatter up when it strikes the ground? No, it splatters in the direction of travel. The point of asking these questions is to hold the accusers to a decent standard rather than echoing emotion-laden, essentially unproven claims without thinking.

Ultimately, no one has presented an argument that answers ANY of those questions. That's the whole point of what I'm saying. Paint of many, if not all types leaves residue and can damage surfaces or have an impact on the land. Playing paintball period has impact. No one has proven that a certain ball actually does more damage or contains more harmful substances than another ball. I wish someone would!

Bringing up asbestos is more alarmism ... why does asbestos even have the reputation it does today? Not because of anything obvious or easily generalized, but scientifically discovered effects. At some point someone had to really prove that asbestos caused mesothelioma rather than any other environmental factor.

[russc]

No doubt about that. They still sell RED fill dont they.

Here's me wearing some red Nelson.

[Lohman446]

Does paint splatter up when it strikes the ground? No, it splatters in the direction of travel. The point of asking these questions is to hold the accusers to a decent standard rather than echoing emotion-laden, essentially unproven claims without thinking.
.

Apparently the majority of the people you play with are far more accurate than the majority of the people I play with.

[3DSteve]

Chronobreak -
Thank you for this thread. We've been tackling the same problems at Xtreme and are taking measures to help the situation, but this thread explains a little behind what's going on.
DRG - I'm sorry you can't be convinced. Lucky for us this isn't a court of law and we don't need that type of proof. I only know what I see at the field, and I don't think it's overblown alarmism. What this type of paint causes, is a pain in the ***, and a loss of investment. I don't think our attempts to solve a problem and discuss it are extreme or uncalled for.

If a company is using shady business practices, or crappy formulas, this is the perfect place to discuss it. Whether Nelson falls into these catagories, is up to each individual, but I try to be concious of whose hands my money ends up in.

[Lohman446]

Ultimately, no one has presented an argument that answers ANY of those questions. That's the whole point of what I'm saying. Paint of many, if not all types leaves residue and can damage surfaces or have an impact on the land. Playing paintball period has impact. No one has proven that a certain ball actually does more damage or contains more harmful substances than another ball. I wish someone would!.

The non-blanding formulas used by regulation on some MOUT sites is not proven to have less of an obvious impact?

[drg]

The non-blanding formulas used by regulation on some MOUT sites is not proven to have less of an obvious impact?

Did you read the article? That white stuff is titanium dioxide and is found in many different paints, incuding many PEG based paints.

[russc]

I don't think anyone is claiming that Titanium Dioxide is harmful beyond leaving white stains. I guess MOUT sites don't have a problems with their buildings being whitewashed.

Now, if the fill was left behind in the form of a waxy/oily deposit, I'm sure they'd disallow it.

[michbich]

Did you read the article? That white stuff is titanium dioxide and is found in many different paints, incuding many PEG based paints.

So what if it's found in paint. It doesn't mean that it's harmful.

"Used as a white food colouring, it has E number E171. In cosmetic and skin care products, titanium dioxide is used both as a pigment and a thickener. It is also used as a tattoo pigment and styptic pencils"

"In almost every sunscreen with a physical blocker, titanium dioxide is found because of its high refractive index, its strong UV light absorbing capabilities and its resistance to discolouration under ultraviolet light. This advantage enhances its stability and ability to protect the skin from ultraviolet light. Sunscreens designed for infants or people with sensitive skin are often based on titanium dioxide and/or zinc oxide, as these mineral UV blockers are less likely to cause skin irritation than chemical UV absorber ingredients, such as avobenzone."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_dioxide

You say you want proof, but where is yours on TO2?

[Lohman446]

I didn't say it wasn't found in many. I simply stated that it is found in at least one readily available substitute.

So... it blocks UV rays. We can see it obviously does something . I'm sure that blocking UV rays has no adverse effect on plant life....

[michbich]

I didn't say it wasn't found in many. I simply stated that it is found in at least one readily available substitute.

So... it blocks UV rays. We can see it obviously does something . I'm sure that blocking UV rays has no adverse effect on plant life....

Light absorbed for photosynthese is not located in the UV range. It is located in the visible spectrum.

Also, many sunscreens *are biodegradable.

*Edit: added "re"

[Lohman446]

Light absorbed for photosynthese is not located in the UV range. It is located in the visible spectrum.

Also, many sunscreens *are biodegradable.

*Edit: added "re"

My bad. I would have assumed that a cover over it would have had detrimental effects.

Still think visibly scarring things is not a good idea if there is an alternative.

[michbich]

The biggest arguement against water soluble paint that I see would be:

Since water soluble paintballs gets washed away with rain, they penetrate the earth faster and could reach underwater streams leading to lacs or rivers. If they do polute the environment, water soluble (hydrophyl) substances would cause more damage to the environment then oil based (hydrophobe) solutions. Since hydrophobe substances do not mix with water, the damage caused to the environment would be conceled in a defined area.

Even if it isn't concidered polution, in a high enough concentration (of anything) can still cause some damage.

Too much of a good thing is too much.
Ex: Water is needed to sustain life but drinking too much of it is fatal.

[txrabbit]

the DO NOT ALLOW list is basicly as follows but is not limited to

Stryker
Monster ball
Nelson paints
low end jt/be paints such as tactical(recon is ok)

visual impact is water soluable however it does have a heavy staining agent or permanent dye in it so i cant reccomend that.

all the XO paint is starch/peg based, as is GAP paints. RPS premium stains as well.

[Chronobreak]

all the XO paint is oil based, as is GAP paints. RPS premium stains as well.

what, really?

we used rps premium for years and never had an issue....unles they changed the formula recently.

we also have tested all XO paint that has beeb brought in, it was water soluable though we diddnt test for staining on either

the only kee paint that was difficult to clean so far was the low end stinger which is a mix of something nasty, and marbalizers

heres a few links to similar threads on PBN,

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2868079

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2855735

[Chronobreak]

The biggest arguement against water soluble paint that I see would be:

Since water soluble paintballs gets washed away with rain, they penetrate the earth faster and could reach underwater streams leading to lacs or rivers. If they do polute the environment, water soluble (hydrophyl) substances would cause more damage to the environment then oil based (hydrophobe) solutions. Since hydrophobe substances do not mix with water, the damage caused to the environment would be conceled in a defined area.

Even if it isn't concidered polution, in a high enough concentration (of anything) can still cause some damage.

Too much of a good thing is too much.
Ex: Water is needed to sustain life but drinking too much of it is fatal.

mich, just wanted to throw in here, the water soluale paints are predominantly PEG which is the main ingredient in soaps and tons of household items, foods etc.

theres no worry there at all, well none more than soap washing down the sink atleast

and if the paint stays in one place, its likely the damage would also be magnified in that area, possibly to the point of having to remove several feet of topsoil just to have the place be OK again..