Dye Rotor -- "50+ BPS"

[Hilltop Customs]

At any rate, I like this design, even if it still is another blimp. And I honestly can not say this about any other "normal" (Egg/Halo/etc.) hopper that I've seen so far. There are a lot of interesting mechanical and geometric things going here. If I understand correctly, the lower scoop counter-rotates against the upper sort paddles, and scoops paint inward toward the feed neck. If you think about it, it's kind of like the last bit of a q-loader, but it operates completely in an inverse fashion.

What I've never liked about other designs is that after your ball is sorted into ready-to-feed position, it continues to get flung in a mini-cyclone because that's how the impellers work. I believe this is just a holdover from the mental mindset that started with original Revvy's. It's unnecessary motion; it takes additional energy, and also causes all the other problems you see with the whole "freeway jamming" and paint flinging. Your sort speed and your force feed are too closely related, and if you start thinking about circles, tangents, and centrifugal force, you start understanding things.

With this loader, it would appear that once a ball gets sorted and drops to the lower level, it doesn't need to go anywhere else. It can just sit there waiting for the lower scoop to come by and finally scoop it into the feed neck. As balls disappear, I think there's a good chance that the next open slot should appear behind the scoop, which would give a ball the maximum amount of time to drop into that slot before it was it's turn to be scooped, which I think is the critical issue needed for speed. You want to give the ball as much time as possible to gravity feed into position, because in the end (or at the top), these things are still gravity fed. Since they're counter-rotating, that also means the same paddle slot gets 2 chances to fill behind the scoop every 1 full rotation. If you don't fill it, well, there's 3-4 other slots that get a chance before you get to try again.

Effectively, your "sort/agitation" and "force" functions are more decoupled. They're not completely decoupled (after all, you know you need to agitate/sort if you successfully force a ball out), so this at least seems like a good idea.

I wonder why there's a fin on the bottom of the thing? That might prevent someone like me from mounting a dovetail on the bottom of that and using it to clamp the hopper to the gun like I've talked about elsewhere.

Also, it'd be neat if this could truly force feed paint out, like a warp, but without having to use a warp. Again, a rail mount on the bottom might prove useful for something like that.

Unfortunately, the reliability is always the big question. You can find worthless drop tests of nearly every loader out there, yet you won't find any true analytical teardowns of a loader where people go, "Hrm, this was a bad design or implementation."

had to quote this just to bring it back to the forefront.....I completely missed this post because of the comments about not liking people mentioning disliking the looks....so I selectively deleted those(hope you dont mind).....anyway great points all around I didnt think about that little fin interfering with mounting, but with really low profile feednecks that could be an issue.(maybe that fin is the "jam release trigger" they mentioned?)

nice point about extending the time between a ball dropping in the "ready" position and actually being fed.

I also really like the idea of changing the hopper mounting. Ive always hated the idea of the feednecks.....adds all kinds of crazy stresses to both the hopper and the body, and for what? so the hopper can be rotated, but I cant remember the last time I rotated my hopper. If you have please say so, and maybe also include why? I cant think of a reason, honestly.

anyway thought I would just quote this and bring it back up, because I completely missed it.

[WARPED1]

WARPED1: nothing determines price quite like demand.....if people are willing to pay for it, that is what it will sell for. Limit quantities of something people want, xmag, and the price will skyrocket.....I dont even want to know what kind of price a SFL would bring around here given the right selling time. Have to agree though, I wouldnt buy them at current prices. But I'd rather have a turd than a polished turd, if they both do the same thing.

Agreed, and by no means am I saying AGD guns are bad. My first "high end" gun that got me through many tournaments, was a Classic lvl 7 mag in 1992, not even an RT! I loved it. I then bought a PTP Jungle Nights annod Micromag, I loved that too. Years later, after many guns, I finally bought an EMag in 2001. It was a great marker, but I sold it promptly because I hated the battery! I'd try an XMag if I wouldn't need to sell my kidneys to maybe afford one. An SFL would be very pricy!

[Hilltop Customs]

It's like shining a laser pointer in front of a pet. That's why they put the claim of 50+ bps on there, regardless of whether or not it's true, because that's what you all pay attention to (that is, when you're not thinking deep thoughts about how attractive or not the shell is). The difference being that most pets will eventually realize that chasing the little dot is futile and will stop doing it, whereas you guys...

Let's imagine that they stated it had a more believable 30bps feed rate. Now what would you guys be arguing about? What if they said it was 25bps? What if they said it was 80bps?

Just TRY to imagine, for one second, that they never made a mention of feed rate. Now what do you have to say?

It's just a number, and the validation of that number remains to be seen. That's it.


As far as the black top paddle thingy's function... I think it serves two main functions. Try to imagine what would happen to the paint if you DIDN'T have it there. The scoop spins around and starts putting force on some paint... and then what?

There are also two other things I forgot to mention that I like about the design. I think the spring loaded bottom floor is a really good idea. I assume that when there's paint in there, it weighs the bottom door down so it lays as far down as possible so you can cram more paint in. However, when you start emptying paint out, it starts rising up so that your balls will naturally funnel into the drive area without the user having to tilt forward.

The other thing is that it runs on 3 AA batteries, which puts it in the voltage range to be run off a single lithium ion cell. I'm betting you could get away with a single 14500 size cell.



Whether or not this thing live up to potential remains to be seen, but looking at the design is interesting. I don't even like Dye, and Hell, I don't even like top-loaders, but the damn thing actually appears to be a pretty clever design.

Heres my idea for the top spinning thing: lol
without the top portion spinning, all it would take is the right ball on top at the right angle/orientation to to cause a strong jamming....the counter rotating top portion keeps the stack "light" on the lower balls.

along with you idea of separation of dropin to actual feed time.....which I'm still impressed by btw

from the looks of it.....idk if this is true or not just kind of watching the video....it looks like that spring portion you mention is actually pressed down when you snap the top piece in place. I think it acts as the spring for the release, but once again I could be wrong about that....its hard to see in the video. In the assembly it looks like a good spread that needs pushed down(abt the height of that spring portion)

reduction in voltage to lithium ion range....damn I like how you think.....along with the reduction in weight, you could also find a different mounting point, and possibly expand capacity. I've always wondered if players would have anything against a "reserve". Shoot all the paint out of the hopper...tip it forward and 20 shots that used to be below the feed level are now in the catch cup area(catch cup or wahtever you want to call it.


BTW it was pretty ironic you post another reply as I bump your previous one

I have to agree the sweep action....lol I've said it so many times I should copyright the name....is a very ingenious design.

[GoatBoy]

from the looks of it.....idk if this is true or not just kind of watching the video....it looks like that spring portion you mention is actually pressed down when you snap the top piece in place. I think it acts as the spring for the release, but once again I could be wrong about that....its hard to see in the video. In the assembly it looks like a good spread that needs pushed down(abt the height of that spring portion)

The quote appears to be "Spring loaded floor tray - constant feeding to the last ball." I am reasonably sure that means that the floor tray does what I think it does -- it drops down when loaded, and pops up when the paint starts getting spent and helps funnel the rest down toward the drive area. Then you put more paint in and it weighs it back down. It's kind of like... expandable luggage.

I still have no idea what that fin is -- it might indeed be the anti-jam thing, and that's a really unfortunate location for it.

reduction in voltage to lithium ion range....damn I like how you think.....along with the reduction in weight, you could also find a different mounting point, and possibly expand capacity. I've always wondered if players would have anything against a "reserve". Shoot all the paint out of the hopper...tip it forward and 20 shots that used to be below the feed level are now in the catch cup area(catch cup or wahtever you want to call it.

When I read this... I realized that a 14500 is a poor choice for a battery; I only thought of that because it's similar in size to a AA battery, but that's a waste of space. A better choice would actually be a flat lithium-polymer cell, because that would use the space better and probably allow that spring loaded floor tray to fold even lower so you could get the extra paint you were talking about. Slightly more risky though.

And... actually, reading it again, you gave me another idea. Maybe the idea of a "reserve" is not that practical or useful... But if it's that important... maybe you could rig up a sensor to that spring loaded floor tray such that once it pushed up, it would maybe turn on a light or make some sort of indicator to you, letting you know that you've probably got X number of rounds left in the hopper. I think that would effectively accomplish the same goal.

Or maybe it should just go ahead and release your lid for you. That'd actually save you the time of having to open it yourself.

[Ruler_Mark]

The quote appears to be "Spring loaded floor tray - constant feeding to the last ball." I am reasonably sure that means that the floor tray does what I think it does -- it drops down when loaded, and pops up when the paint starts getting spent and helps funnel the rest down toward the drive area. Then you put more paint in and it weighs it back down. It's kind of like... expandable luggage.

I still have no idea what that fin is -- it might indeed be the anti-jam thing, and that's a really unfortunate location for it.




When I read this... I realized that a 14500 is a poor choice for a battery; I only thought of that because it's similar in size to a AA battery, but that's a waste of space. A better choice would actually be a flat lithium-polymer cell, because that would use the space better and probably allow that spring loaded floor tray to fold even lower so you could get the extra paint you were talking about. Slightly more risky though.

And... actually, reading it again, you gave me another idea. Maybe the idea of a "reserve" is not that practical or useful... But if it's that important... maybe you could rig up a sensor to that spring loaded floor tray such that once it pushed up, it would maybe turn on a light or make some sort of indicator to you, letting you know that you've probably got X number of rounds left in the hopper. I think that would effectively accomplish the same goal.

Or maybe it should just go ahead and release your lid for you. That'd actually save you the time of having to open it yourself.

After opening the lid it screams "FEEED ME" + gozilla roar.

[50 cal]

The ease of disassembly will probably be its main selling point to tournament players. The 50+pbs is just a marketing gimmick since most tourney play is capped.
The gee whiz kids will try their darndest to get it to really spit out the paint. Can you say "Paint sellers wet dream, kids?" "I knew you could."

[fsrxc1]

I actually have one coming back from cup for me...just wanted to try it out..it intruigued me...as soon as i get it and get a chance to use it i will let you guys know how it actually works.

[snoopay700]

About whether it's a true forcefeed loader or not i really don't think it is from the looks of it. I mean it forces it to the feed hole yeah, but after that it seems like gravity would take over since there's no curve to keep the previous balls in line putting pressure on the balls in the stack (well probably ball, i don't know how long the feed neck is). So it very well could reach 50 bps but that's irrelevant because it doesn't seem like it's an actual force feed loader, it seems like once it gets to the center gravity takes over for it, and it'll get pushed by the previous ball for a split second as it starts to fall down the feed neck, but that's it, unless they have it such a way so that in it's rest position a ball is only halfway down the feedneck so it still has pressure on it, which now that i think about it it probably would, but since i was talking mainly about mounting it elsewhere, i'll talk about that, and say that i don't think it would have enough force to mount it on the side without a warp.

[pmstc]

I've always wondered if players would have anything against a "reserve". Shoot all the paint out of the hopper...tip it forward and 20 shots that used to be below the feed level are now in the catch cup area(catch cup or wahtever you want to call it.

the magna has this. nice little feature. lets you know that you need to refill, but if you're in a pinch you can just tip the hopper back and you have 20 more shots. i <3 my magna

[MAGnetism]

Dye always impresses me with their products. I'm way bummed they stopped making the throttle.