Ball chopping...Not what I thought.

[Indignant]

no

you have a gravity fed hopper and a gun with no eyes, no anti-chop bolt, whatever. as you're shooting, you outshoot your gun. there is no ball in the breach, but as the next one the hopper feeds is partway into the breach the bolt comes forward and destroys it. that's a chop.

the video was the ball hitting the next ball in the stack. it wasn't on its way in when it was compromised, it was just chillin.

[DevilMan]

Huh? This video showed exactly what your definition of a chop is happening.

A ball partially in the breach getting hit by the bolt. Thats exactly what was happening.

I think he means this.... Breach is empty. Bolt comes back, ball falls down, halfway into the breach bolt comes forward. CHOPPING the ball into because it wasn't fed all the way down into the breach. Basically if you turned the eyes off of the Ego and put a gravity feed hopper on it, I'd be willing to say that it'd chop in the first 5 shots if you tried to finger it fast. Cure bolt or not.

Meaning that the clipping that is seen in the vid is after the ball is stacked on top of the one in the breach. The classic chop as to what I always thought of was because the gun was blind or had no sensor to say a ball was in place. So it was straight pull and shoot. It didn't matter whether there was a ball 100% 50% or even 10% in the breach the gun still shot.

DM

[athomas]

I'd like to see the cure bolt shooting the same green balls, not the orange ones.

We've always known about the clipping of the next ball in the stack for years. Its good that someone finally acknowledged it and actually showed it happening. I have always used a larger bore barrel to prevent it. That way I wasn't shoving a damaged ball into a tight bore. Less chance it will fly apart. I rarely had "barrel breaks", even on fragile paint, while using any gun.

[SSP-SheiK]

You mean to tell me its impossible for a ball to break in the middle of a barrel?!

so then what explains this: i shoot goo out my barrel, chop/misfeed/break w/e... i take off my barrel to clean it, the sizer or insert is clean but the tip or the rest of the barrel is coated... that sounds like a barrel break to me...

[cockerpunk]

so then what explains this: i shoot goo out my barrel, chop/misfeed/break w/e... i take off my barrel to clean it, the sizer or insert is clean but the tip or the rest of the barrel is coated... that sounds like a barrel break to me...

keep in mind also that firing more paint though the barrel will clean the smaller bore part out. unless you take the barrel off before firing another shot, then you wont know if it was a mid barrel break.

[rx2]

I have had a ball break in the middle of the barrel, while hand-loading individual rounds in my backyard. I have had this happen with every marker I have owned, and with several different barrels, all of which were one-piece barrels of a single ID. This was with clean barrels, too. It also wasn't due to imperfections in the barrels, as it wasn't repeatable, and I inspected them closely to make sure that there wasn't a sharp edge on a port, or something similar.

So, I know empirically that a break can happen at any point as the paint is traveling down the barrel. There is nothing precluding it from happening. However, I also know that it is extremely rare in a clean, smooth barrel.

[dark blade]

what people need to realise (and i have watched cocker punks egg video to explain this one) is that the force being applied equally around the circumfrance of the ball will need to be EXTREMELY HUGE to crush the paintball mid barrel. the only reasonable means to have a ball break mid barrel would be for it to be damaged or have "malfunctioned" at some point while being fired... aka a chop. Even with a larger bored barrel, if the ball is sliced or damaged at all when it is fired it will explode... the pressure from the shot breaks the ball open not the tight bore of the barrel.

The only real way to explain the muzzle loading breaks is that the ball is going from a complete 0 and being slammed with massive pressure from behind instantaneously rather than the slight movement and acceleration the ball is put into by the moving bolt before the air is released to behind it... but of course i could be wrong on that theory and probably am

[SSP-SheiK]

what people need to realise (and i have watched cocker punks egg video to explain this one) is that the force being applied equally around the circumfrance of the ball will need to be EXTREMELY HUGE to crush the paintball mid barrel. the only reasonable means to have a ball break mid barrel would be for it to be damaged or have "malfunctioned" at some point while being fired... aka a chop. Even with a larger bored barrel, if the ball is sliced or damaged at all when it is fired it will explode... the pressure from the shot breaks the ball open not the tight bore of the barrel.

The only real way to explain the muzzle loading breaks is that the ball is going from a complete 0 and being slammed with massive pressure from behind instantaneously rather than the slight movement and acceleration the ball is put into by the moving bolt before the air is released to behind it... but of course i could be wrong on that theory and probably am

well that doesnt make any sense at all... either way the ball is at "zero" loaded by hand or hopper. hes trying to figure out why theres still a break. even when there is no ball in the stack vulnerable to the bolt. chops usually dont happen with the first shot (if you watched the video). when hand feeding, every shot is technically the first shot..

cockerpunk: say i have a break... before i fire any more shots i take the barrel off to clean it. i look down the barrel and the sizer or insert is completely clean, however the end of the barrel (like after the insert or sizer) is coated. you mean to tell me that the ball failed beforehand yet didnt get a drop of paint anywhere else save for the end of the barrel?

something doesnt match up here. (i think it may be the paint to bore :P da dunn tshh!)

[dark blade]

what i am trying to say is that with the ball breech loaded the ball gets hit with air immediately. with the bolt breech load the bolt moves forward before the ball gets hit with air so the ball is in motion before the air blast hits it.

and what cockerpunk is trying to say is that the tighter bore fit makes it so that next paintball cleans out the bore better than the overbored section of the tip which is where the paint is located.

[cockerpunk]

cockerpunk: say i have a break... before i fire any more shots i take the barrel off to clean it. i look down the barrel and the sizer or insert is completely clean, however the end of the barrel (like after the insert or sizer) is coated. you mean to tell me that the ball failed beforehand yet didnt get a drop of paint anywhere else save for the end of the barrel?

possibly ...

there are reasons why paintballs would fail mid barrel, but those are much more rare then loading issues.

[SSP-SheiK]

yea i dont think that the paintball is cabable of completely cleaning a barrel sizer out of broken paint and shell (without leaving any evidence of the break itself)...

mid barrel breaks are rare, but not mythical...



and your explenation on handfeeding vs loader feeding still doesnt make sense to me, sorry...

[dark blade]

Think of my explaination in the terms of a soccer ball... if you run and kick the ball from standing the ball flys really really far (depending on your strength)... now if you roll the ball at the exact same speed in which you run and then kick it with the same force it doesn't go nearly as far... its the same theory to me... and to me it makes perfect sense but its fine that others don't understand or agree.


Make any better sense now?

[SSP-SheiK]

no, because how is the ball standing still or beginning roll with the bolt due to the method of loading?? either way the ball is not moving and the bolt pushes the ball into the breach/down the barrel. the only difference is that there isnt another ball in the stack if you hand feed one by one opposed to the stack having 2-3 balls in place to be dropped into the breach. do you think that because its loaded with a hopper the ball starts to roll down the barrel prior to the bolt hitting it?

your soccer explanation is flawed too... no matter if the ball is the same speed as the player running, you still have the added power of the leg kicking the ball (so its just like if the ball and player were standing still anyway.)

[dark blade]

nooooo im saying that the ball CAN break without being flawed when placed in the barrel due to the direct force without being at motion first... and that the ball that is SITTING in the breech will NOT break when not flawed because it has less of a "force" behind it.

we are clearly thinking on 2 completely different "playing fields" so to speak... but thats ok... like i said, i think on my own cloud anyways most people just look at me and go HUH??!?!? when i am in the lab or working with numbers and formulas haha.

im going to resign into my corner now and play with my own calculations for a while cheers all