You know what would be the easiest way to save this sport?

[SSP-SheiK]

It's not just yours....many hold that same opinion.

oh, i know... i just hadnt seen anyone voice it yet...


and if someone did, my apologies, i didnt feel like reading every post

[maniacmechanic]

well do this : Play outlaw , been playing that way since I been playing , basicly you do pick who you play with and you learn how they play , those that go with higher rof markers turn into targets at our place
Example , thier are 2 guys that when they started they were shooting Mech Tippmans , they went through the SP thing ( shockers & nerves I think ) now they both shoot uncapped Egos & you know what , even at 28 bps they still can't hit me when I shoot them in the back

[halB]

A couple of points that need correcting.

When I was talking about holding it more like a gun, I literally meant how you hold it. Nowadays we put almost all of the weight on the reg, or foregrip, and we very lightly grasp the actual handle or grip with our right hand. I would like for more of the weight to be supported by the right hand. (Please ignore shooting out of the left side of the bunker for a moment.) You simply cannot hold the gun well if you are using two fingers to fan the trigger. With a single trigger frame, you can actually hold the marker like a gun. And since the gun, in its course of invention, needed ergonomics, I say we should adopt theirs.

I was also saying this should be done for tournies, not recball. You simply could not mandate a 100 dollar upgrade to play recball. The fields would go bankrupt. But, tournies easily could. If we change the top, the bottom will fall into line.

[dre1919]

I agree that paintball isn't as much fun as it used to be. When I began playing, we used to play at a really nice field down by this Air Force base. My friends and I were in college and we played woodsball games with semi's and a few pumps. 500 rounds would last for a long time because there was more stalking and hiding...more tactics. Those were great days, but like all things evolution set in. Soon enough we got interested in the bigger, better, faster, stronger aspect and starting playing tournament paintball. From there, it was jerseys and speedball wear instead of camo, faster and more technologically superior guns and much, much less stalking. Woodsball was suddenly not cool anymore, and the game changed into speedball / hyperball / sup' air, etc.

Now, of course one can go back into the world of strict woodsball, or playing pump, etc. to try and rekindle that magic or control cost. However, it's interesting the mentality and ego that sets in. You start to go out to fields and you're playing with an "ancient" gun shooting very few balls per second and the kiddies are playing with the latest and greatest. Those not in the know think those guys are the "good" players and look at those who come out for simpler games as the podunk newbs or poorboy players. Of course, your play on the field is going to prove them wrong (given you navigate through the enormous wave of spray and pray). But, you still crave that feeling of being seen as a "good player". It's just natural that people who have seniority and experience in their sport want to be recognized as such. Plus, you crave performance out of your equipment and if you know there is better out there (better meaning more accurate, faster ROF if you want it, etc.) than it's tough to go old school without second thoughts.

The point I'm making here is, once the evolution happens it's tough to go back for whatever the reason. I've tried. I feel odd being one of the most experienced players on a field at a given day yet sporting ancient equipment or lacking the funds to play as long as I like. It shouldn't be that way but it is. The fact is, the game has changed into a sport of the richer kids (or the kids with parents who shell out the cash for cases of paint) and the self-sufficient are less involved. Most of my friends, and all of my team, rarely play anymore. They have families, mortgages, bills, etc. that demand the money they would have spent on paintball. Sure, it's nice in theory to say "We'll all start playing pump or woodsball to save money and just get out and PLAY" but that's easier said than done. Once you've had the taste of playing at a more intense level, faster pace or with technologically superior equipment it's tough to rationalize going back. It's like racing in a league using Porsche road racing cars and then going down and racing in a league using 70's VW Beetles. You can do it, but you just feel wierd.

I don't think limiting guns to single trigger frames would help much as the game has just changed from where it used to be. Everyone wants that feeling they used to have but no matter how much you adjust your equipment it's not going to be there. Paintball is a different animal than it was in 1997 or whatever and you have to either find ways to enjoy it the way it is now or find ways to suspend time and play it on your own, with friends on your own land or something, and stop paying attention to the mainstream. For me, anytime I go out to the fields I only take my hopper full of paint. That's it. It forces me to move more, shoot less. Plus, if I run out of paint, I just go out and wait for the next game. I get to play virtually all day on what would have lasted me three or four games in my tournament days. It's an adjustment, but one I was glad to make.

-dre

[Reiner]

I agree that paintball isn't as much fun as it used to be. When I began playing, we used to play at a really nice field down by this Air Force base. My friends and I were in college and we played woodsball games with semi's and a few pumps. 500 rounds would last for a long time because there was more stalking and hiding...more tactics. Those were great days, but like all things evolution set in. Soon enough we got interested in the bigger, better, faster, stronger aspect and starting playing tournament paintball. From there, it was jerseys and speedball wear instead of camo, faster and more technologically superior guns and much, much less stalking. Woodsball was suddenly not cool anymore, and the game changed into speedball / hyperball / sup' air, etc.

Now, of course one can go back into the world of strict woodsball, or playing pump, etc. to try and rekindle that magic or control cost. However, it's interesting the mentality and ego that sets in. You start to go out to fields and you're playing with an "ancient" gun shooting very few balls per second and the kiddies are playing with the latest and greatest. Those not in the know think those guys are the "good" players and look at those who come out for simpler games as the podunk newbs or poorboy players. Of course, your play on the field is going to prove them wrong (given you navigate through the enormous wave of spray and pray). But, you still crave that feeling of being seen as a "good player". It's just natural that people who have seniority and experience in their sport want to be recognized as such. Plus, you crave performance out of your equipment and if you know there is better out there (better meaning more accurate, faster ROF if you want it, etc.) than it's tough to go old school without second thoughts.

The point I'm making here is, once the evolution happens it's tough to go back for whatever the reason. I've tried. I feel odd being one of the most experienced players on a field at a given day yet sporting ancient equipment or lacking the funds to play as long as I like. It shouldn't be that way but it is. The fact is, the game has changed into a sport of the richer kids (or the kids with parents who shell out the cash for cases of paint) and the self-sufficient are less involved. Most of my friends, and all of my team, rarely play anymore. They have families, mortgages, bills, etc. that demand the money they would have spent on paintball. Sure, it's nice in theory to say "We'll all start playing pump or woodsball to save money and just get out and PLAY" but that's easier said than done. Once you've had the taste of playing at a more intense level, faster pace or with technologically superior equipment it's tough to rationalize going back. It's like racing in a league using Porsche road racing cars and then going down and racing in a league using 70's VW Beetles. You can do it, but you just feel wierd.

I don't think limiting guns to single trigger frames would help much as the game has just changed from where it used to be. Everyone wants that feeling they used to have but no matter how much you adjust your equipment it's not going to be there. Paintball is a different animal than it was in 1997 or whatever and you have to either find ways to enjoy it the way it is now or find ways to suspend time and play it on your own, with friends on your own land or something, and stop paying attention to the mainstream. For me, anytime I go out to the fields I only take my hopper full of paint. That's it. It forces me to move more, shoot less. Plus, if I run out of paint, I just go out and wait for the next game. I get to play virtually all day on what would have lasted me three or four games in my tournament days. It's an adjustment, but one I was glad to make.

-dre

The thing is though, even if you do decide to go back to the woods, it's not the same as it was 10 or 15 years ago. The technology developed for speedball is in the woods now too. Couple that with the cost of paintballs now compared to 10 or 15 years ago, that enables the type of play that is prevelant at most recreationla paintball fields today, there is no haven at most commercial fields for those that want to play a game that involves more stealth and tactics and is more fun for them. It's rare to find a field owner that doesn't push paintball sales these days, and concentrates on games that are more fun for "average" people.

[ProblemKinder]

But see now...the problem is that most fields, the ones that make money on their paint, depend on these kids with their egos shooting 3 cases of paint an hour. Not saying that its right but its also help with their businesses. Thats why you are seeing more and more fields having stock class only days or mech gun only days to help this issue.

Personally I could care less. The only thing that I dislike is overshooting someone. It doesn't have to take 12balls to various parts of my body to eliminate me. you dont have to have limited paint and a non electro marker to accomplish this. Granted it would make it easier. The person just has to show a little restraint when ripping a string. Instead of 9 balls throw 3 at them instead. if you got a good shot and know ur gonna hit them then just send 1 ball, most people are gonna know the accuracy of their markers. Just my opinion.

problem number one: you're right, fiels make money on paint. we shoot less paint, they have to raise the price of admission, which would make people mad of course. Even though it would even out in the end. less paint plus higher admission should equal about the same overall.

second problem, nowadays you have to put enough paint on someone that they're still wiping when the ref shows up to do a paint check otherwise they'll never go out...

[ProblemKinder]

am I the only one that doesn't have the ability to just choose who I play with? It's not like I have 20 friends that play paintball I can just call up and go play. I'm at the mercy of whoever else shows up at the field. And typically, the people that show up are the egos/angels/matrix/ions with their gazillion bps.

That being said, I like the challenge =] It's actually alot of fun playing with my ULE Automag against the higher rates of fire. and playing pump against them is a BLAST.

woodsball is . To me anyways. some people like crawling and creeping like a for an hour to finally get a good 20 minute fire fight in. I don't like that. I play paintball to people. Going back to woodsball isn't "fixing" any "problem". it's just another style of play that some people prefer.

althought I enjoy the challenge of playing against agglets with crazy BPS, I do agree that it turns away newbies. It only takes one bad experience to turn a player away for life. I get lit up but I understand that's part of the game. most newbies are first convinced by someone that paintball doesn't really hurt all that bad, and then they get lit up from 3 feet away by 10 balls and suddenly they realize that sometimes, paintball hurts like

[Reiner]

am I the only one that doesn't have the ability to just choose who I play with? It's not like I have 20 friends that play paintball I can just call up and go play. I'm at the mercy of whoever else shows up at the field.

You and the majority of paintball players are in the same boat. That includes new players, because they aren't going to have a bunch og good guys to go play renegade ball with. Just about all new players go to a commercial field for their first paintball encounter. And what they encounter is not always to their liking. And therin lies the biggest problem facing the industry right now.

We can sit here and say, "Well, it doesn't matter to me cause I choose who I play with at our renegade field." And that's fine, but that doesn't change the fact that as time goes by, there will be less and less people to play with.

[dre1919]

That is a major problem that paintball faces...probably it's largest. We as a sport never bothered to properly care for the next generation of paintball players. Too many ego driven players saw newbs as "target practice" when they would hit the field. This left new players with the feeling that the "good" players were a-holes, that the sport was only for the rich or those with poor attitudes, or that they needed to just get better and keep at it (the minority I would bet). This is of course at fields, not out on someone's land with friends...but most new players are being welcomed to the game on their own land. They go to fields where they encounter these conditions and it makes people think "Well, that sucked. I got beat up on and I'm not coming back." Or, even if they do like it, they think they could never get to that level or have the money to spend like those individuals so it's a pointless game. It's why I have long since thought that fields should require skill levels of players and the equipment they use to be in certain gaming areas. I mean, sure, it'd be hard to enforce and probably even harder to rule decisively, but at least it's a start toward letting the new kids come out and have a positive experience.

-dre

[littleshwade]

I do agree with that. I have seen this happen several times and it is stupid. The people who just are now starting to play are the next generation of this sport. If their first experience is one of just people going only after them they get the impression that this is what always happens, then they never play again. When ever someone new comes to the field that I play at I or someone watches out for them and tries to help them out with whatever problems they have. Also the rate of fire some of these guns put out are stupid. I have an e-mag so I have no room to talk but I normally play in the mech mode. I do agree something needs to happen to this sport to help it expand and be more appealing to more people.