Tippmann X-7 Phenom aka New Cheap E-Mag

[WickedKlown2]

Garbage... looks cheap and Feels Cheap. Reminds me of a Stingray that goes full auto... lmao

Not to sound mean or to start a flame fest but,,, where and when did you fire/handle the new x7 Phenom ??? They have not yet been released except to a few Teams (4 that I know of) and won't be available till the first week in Dec. 2009... I am just wondering what you base your comments off of...

And for anyone coming to AO South I will have one of the new x7 Phenoms with me that my Team helped to test out,,, and anyone there is more than welcome to give it a test drive if they wish... :)


WK2

[Frizzle Fry]

Not to sound mean or to start a flame fest but,,, where and when did you fire/handle the new x7 Phenom ??? They have not yet been released except to a few Teams (4 that I know of) and won't be available till the first week in Dec. 2009... I am just wondering what you base your comments off of...

I handled and fired one at Boston Paintball today... I have to say I was dissapointed as well. I'm not sure that they've only been released to teams since I know a few people who have one, though not for personal markers. I have to say it was too light for its size, trigger was WEIRD and frankly it didn't feel like something I'd ever consider playing with.

[WickedKlown2]

I handled and fired one at Boston Paintball today... I have to say I was dissapointed as well. I'm not sure that they've only been released to teams since I know a few people who have one, though not for personal markers. I have to say it was too light for its size, trigger was WEIRD and frankly it didn't feel like something I'd ever consider playing with.

Frizzle Fry,,,

I can go with your comments on this new marker because you actually state that you fired/held it and gave a discription as to why you didn't like it... The person I asked the question to did not qualify his statement and just used a broad statement... I am just trying to gather information be it good or bad of what players think of it,,, and how it can be improved... I am a die hard mag/aka owner and in no way a fan boy of any one marker manufacturer ...

Thank You for your answer Frizzle and I will make sure that information gets passed along (I dont use names in my report) to help make improvements... :)

WK2

[MagsRgreat]

I handled and fired one at Boston Paintball today... I have to say I was dissapointed as well. I'm not sure that they've only been released to teams since I know a few people who have one, though not for personal markers. I have to say it was too light for its size, trigger was WEIRD and frankly it didn't feel like something I'd ever consider playing with.

"too light for its size, the trigger was WEIRD"

So it was lighter than it looked & the trigger didn't feel like you thought it would?

Weird how?

[Frizzle Fry]

Frizzle Fry,,,

I can go with your comments on this new marker because you actually state that you fired/held it and gave a discription as to why you didn't like it... The person I asked the question to did not qualify his statement and just used a broad statement... I am just trying to gather information be it good or bad of what players think of it,,, and how it can be improved... I am a die hard mag/aka owner and in no way a fan boy of any one marker manufacturer ...

Thank You for your answer Frizzle and I will make sure that information gets passed along (I dont use names in my report) to help make improvements... :)

WK2

Thanks.

I didn't hate it, I just didn't like the body very much. It was light for its size, and felt too bulky and plasticky. I like "big" markers and I understand the milsim appeal, but I didn't like the boxy-ness of the X7 to begin with and the Phenom model (while not exactly the same as an traditional X7) makes an M4 or G3 feel tiny by comparison.


In response to MagsRGreat
I also didn't like the trigger feeling. It wasn't as crisp as an emag and had the slightly mushy feeling I've always associated with E-spyders or other electronic Tippmanns. That said, the fire selector was brilliant and I'm praying that they don't lose the legal battle with HK and end up using a different system...


I should rephrase to say that if it wasn't in an X-7 style body I'd probably buy one. The trigger issue is something for me to work out; plenty of people will be very satisfied with what's in there, and I set a much higher standard than most do by comparing immediately to the emag.

[00Buckshot]

Having both an E-Tac and '03 Viking - you just can't compare higher end electros to a Phenom. It really isn't fair.

I do actually agree with you some about the trigger. It has a different feel to it, but I haven't tried adjusting it either. It is, however, a marked improvement over the standard X7, A5 and 98C - which all had a really long, hard pulls; that is until you toyed with the spring, polished it or dropped in an after market one from APE or say RI. Comparing it to other markers in it's class though, like the TM-15 or TM-7, SP-1.... I feel that it has a better pull. That's just me.

You can also see this as a huge transition for Tippmann and their valve systems. I'm sure we'll see new markers and styles being made to use this valve system. I mean hell.. look how long their old system has lasted.

[Bagheera]

I have to agree with Frizzle Fry on this one regarding the body. If the body wasn't so flippin' huge I'd definitely buy one. As it stands now, my next purchase is going to be a Tiberius, my first non-Mag purchase, EVER.

[Frizzle Fry]

Having both an E-Tac and '03 Viking - you just can't compare higher end electros to a Phenom. It really isn't fair.

I do actually agree with you some about the trigger. It has a different feel to it, but I haven't tried adjusting it either. It is, however, a marked improvement over the standard X7, A5 and 98C - which all had a really long, hard pulls; that is until you toyed with the spring, polished it or dropped in an after market one from APE or say RI. Comparing it to other markers in it's class though, like the TM-15 or TM-7, SP-1.... I feel that it has a better pull. That's just me.

I agree on some level; with their electro upgrades and frames in the past Tippmann hasn't had the need to deal with precision triggers.

While the Phenom isn't meant to be up there with Egos and DMs of the world, at an MSRP of $450 with an average price of $399 it should have had something more stable. These days there aren't just "high-end" and "low-end" when it comes to electronic markers... We've got "cheap crap" ($1-$75) to "low end" ($75-$250) to "mid range" ($250-$450) to "high end" ($475-$750) and then a plethora of "super-guns" that run anywhere from $800 to $1600!

The "$300 and under" electro market isn't just a bunch of E-Spyders anymore... With the Mini, the SLG, the G3 and PMR you get a trigger system that's much easier to tune (from what I could see; I didn't give the marker a full tear-down) and feels better out of the box. I know it's a woodsball marker, but after test shooting the MTac, the BFG, electro'ed BTs and Tippmanns, and the crap SP is making, and the GI50, I feel like for the price of $450 a lot more could have been done.

You can also see this as a huge transition for Tippmann and their valve systems. I'm sure we'll see new markers and styles being made to use this valve system. I mean hell.. look how long their old system has lasted.

Can't argue with that; the Tippmann system is brilliant and will stand the test of time. I loved the "carbine" generations and the m98, the m98c brought some much needed upgradability to the system, and then the A5 fixed the field-strip issue that earlier Tippmanns witha clamshell design had. I just never jumped on the X7 band wagon because it felt HUGE and awkward and had no pronounced advantages over older models.

[00Buckshot]

One of the survey questions that Tippmann had asked us throughout the R&D phase of the Phenom was whether it was important to us if was manufactured in the US. My team, being composed mostly of Vets, of course answered yes.

That being said, if you sent this off shore to be manufactured, I'd bet the price would be in be a lot less. Does this make you feel better about spending $450 on a marker? ..that's up to any of you. I'm not justifying the cost or what you get for your hard earned dollars... I'm also not trying to sell you on the Phenom, but I'd though I add that bit of information.

[Newt]

One of the survey questions that Tippmann had asked us throughout the R&D phase of the Phenom was whether it was important to us if was manufactured in the US. My team, being composed mostly of Vets, of course answered yes.

That being said, if you sent this off shore to be manufactured, I'd bet the price would be in be a lot less. Does this make you feel better about spending $450 on a marker? ..that's up to any of you. I'm not justifying the cost or what you get for your hard earned dollars... I'm also not trying to sell you on the Phenom, but I'd though I add that bit of information.

Wouldn't bother me a bit.

Isolation economics kill jobs, raise prices, take money out of the consumer's pocket (removing freedom of choices) and destroy companies and economies. That's about the most anti-American thing I can think of.

That thinking doesn't do favors for anyone. In Jonesville, they have a widgit factory. Franksville has a lot of software engineers. Does it really make sense for the Frankville software engineers to hand-make much needed widgits while the Jonesville widgit-makers work out production with an abacus? Same thing here. We supply them currency, they supply us with parts. Valuable American time is freed up, engineering jobs, prototyping jobs, advertising jobs, and plenty more are created, money is freed up, and the customer has more cash in his pocket. The Chinese or whoever has the cheap manufacturing labor at the moment also take one step further to being a more modern country.

[Frizzle Fry]

The Chinese or whoever has the cheap manufacturing labor at the moment also take one step further to being a more modern country.

Made in the US is a good thing, but the issue here is NOT being made in China.

Clintons trade agreement with China was a crock of... something... His selling point was that we would manufacture things that the billions of Chinese people would purchase. Unfortunately in the PRC there aren't any copyright laws so counterfeiting is a huge problem. Also there are no government restrictions concerning pollution or hazardous materials; I'm not a tree-hugger but I don't like the idea of dumping oil in the ocean or having extreme lead content in anything other than maybe a lead weight.

On the humanitarian side, there's also no wage-control so people get paid little to nothing (not just when compared to other economies, but in general), add to that the serious government issues that were finally brought to light (at least to the masses) following last years Olympic Games and you've got a serious issue.

Remember back before the "Politically Correct" era when it was OK to acknowledge the fact that most of the time "Made in China" means junk?




Anyway, more to the point, yes there is a lot of outsourcing in paintball and that can effect prices, but I'm a guy who owns mostly Automags, Autocockers, Sheridans, Palmers pieces, Tippmanns, and other markers made in the US. I set my standard based first and foremost how something performs, then what it's made of (less plastic is better), then where it's made. For some reason "Made in the US out of Metal" tends to perform better in every catergory but cost

[CatoRockwell]

I'm a proponent of free trade, but our deal with china along with other countries is far from free trade. We tax the hell out of business owners here in the US, along with subsidies, wage control, and numerous other restrictions. It forces American businesses to compete unfairly with cheap foreign labor which experience none of these.

Point is, by all means lets have free trade and may the best product win! However, we need our government to get out of private business affairs in the US in order to allow our companies to compete.

[Frizzle Fry]

I'm a proponent of free trade, but our deal with china along with other countries is far from free trade. We tax the hell out of business owners here in the US, along with subsidies, wage control, and numerous other restrictions. It forces American businesses to compete unfairly with cheap foreign labor which experience none of these.

Point is, by all means lets have free trade and may the best product win! However, we need our government to get out of private business affairs in the US in order to allow our companies to compete.

Exactly my point.

I firmly believe that we should let anyone do business in the US, but that all countries planning to export to the US live up to standards to which US businesses are held. For example, we have laws against illegal dumping of toxic waste, and shouldn't import product made in factories where toxic dumping occurs. We also have strict laws regulating products containing lead, whereas Chinese importers bring thousands of lead-containing childrens toys every day. Those are reasonable expectations that stem from health concerns, but go ignored (I'm guessing) because of our enormous debt to the joke that passes as the Chinese government.

[Oddux]

Found a review of the X7 including pictures of the marker and valve broken down here

[CatoRockwell]

I wonder if anyone here could use the method the x7 uses to feed the cyclone feed on a automag?