Trouble with UThomas

[UThomas]

You have my best offer - sounds like you might be more interested in keeping it or selling it. If the latter is the case - I can put you in contact with the next buyer in line.

BTW- what part of the marker "was full of paint." Its statements like these that make it very hard for me to take you seriously as a reasonable buyer.

Thanks-

Thomas

[Smoothice]

AE- you started the thread, so you can delete it without asking once this is taken care of.

Sadly it doesn't look like that is going to happen though.

[Beemer]

Funny you mention him. I asked about this mag and he said you'd probably offload it for 800 if I asked.

Sheesh.

Would you buy it now for seven fifty??????

[Ando]

You have my best offer - sounds like you might be more interested in keeping it or selling it. If the latter is the case - I can put you in contact with the next buyer in line.

BTW- what part of the marker "was full of paint." Its statements like these that make it very hard for me to take you seriously as a reasonable buyer.

Thanks-

Thomas

Where did you read into his post that he would be interested in keeping it? He doesn't want the marker, that's the whole reason behind this thread. You're being unreasonable. It's statements like this that's going to make it hard for anyone here to do business with you ever again.

You want to keep $70 for what...mental anguish? Why would he give you anything?

[ArmyEngineer]

You have my best offer - sounds like you might be more interested in keeping it or selling it. If the latter is the case - I can put you in contact with the next buyer in line.

BTW- what part of the marker "was full of paint." Its statements like these that make it very hard for me to take you seriously as a reasonable buyer.

Thanks-

Thomas

I am not interested in keeping the marker, nor do I want the burden of reselling it. I hope you will reconsider since you maintain that it will be such an easy sale. I think it is very fair for each of us to cover a shipping cost. I am not inclined to put $50 in your pocket. The trigger frame had a pretty good buildup inside. The sear lock was sticking as well. It is better post cleanup, but it is still a bit stiff.

[Beemer]

Its statements like these that make it very hard for me to take you seriously as a reasonable buyer.

Thanks-

Thomas

Holy crap. From your PMs and posts, your statements make it VERY hard for me to take you as a serious and responsible seller.

[hill160881]

Bet he does not even have the money anymore.


Thus the need for a third party(escrow) to ensure both parties are happy before final payment is made.

Good idea on any a high dollar/collectable item.

On a personal note. I dont like a cheat, but i really hate one that will cheat a US solder. i assume by your name and the reference to, on duty, you are. If not then i still hate a cheat.

[UThomas]

The fact that you would even act like that marker was covered in paint is ridiculous and yet consistent. This, folks, is part and parcel of the whole deal with this buyer. You want to tell me my description of the marker is off based on crazy lighting conditions, and then make a statement that is *clearly* not true as evidenced in the video I took that shows the breach off and inside of the grip frame for the xmod a few days before I shipped it that I posted earlier. Give me a break. The safety is stiff? Seriously - I know you've been here a year - have you ever read a thread on emags? That minor issue - from the factory - is probably a top 10 thread topic and costs about $0 to remedy if you feel like cutting the safety spring.

If you want to sell it back to me that cost of returning it is 10% of the original sale. If you want to sell it yourself - the transaction cost is zero as you say. If you want to keep it - I hope you enjoy it - it is a fine marker.

BTW - so everyone understands:

If the marker looked as dinged up and scratched as it does in his strobe light pics (but only some of them, again - even in his own pics you see widely different conditions for that small section of the marker) I would absolutely take it back AND cover shipping (and moreover never would have described it as I did).

I - fundamentally - do not believe that represents the condition of the marker. I have posted multiple high quality pictures in normal lighting of the marker that reflect what I saw when I held the marker and were the basis for my description. If he took normal pics they would show the same thing.

Have a good night-

Thomas

[UThomas]

Beemer - thanks for your continued constructive contributions to this process.

[Newt]

Unsubscribed. This is way too much drama for my tastes.

[Frizzle Fry]

His "excellent" appears to be my "LNIB" - especially as it relates to a 5+ year old marker.

"LNIB" stands for "Like New, In Box" which would imply that it was in "like new" condition and "in" the original "box". If a marker has wear of any kind, it's not LNIB; it's just a used marker that includes a box. That sort of differentiation is important, but rarely are the terms represented properly, especially on paintball forums.

I've never had dealings with either party, so I just hope this calms down a bit and you guys are able to find a solution.




Anyway, here's a good resource for listing items appropriately, geared towards high-ends and collectibles:

NIB
A marker that is brand new, in its original box, in perfect condition. It has no wear, includes all original parts and paperwork, and has not been fired outside of the factory where it was tested. Seal on box may be broken, but all stickers, warnings, and internal packaging are still in place. If the marker is NOS, packaging may show shelf wear, discoloration, dust, grime, or be partially re-packaged.



LNIB
A pre-owned marker that has been fired, yet is in perfect condition. No signs that the marker has ever been used or fired, aside from the slightest of wear on the threads of the ASA. Accompanied by the factory box and documentation. No alterations from factory-delivered condition. Shooting perfectly and needs nothing. 100%



Mint
A pre-owned marker that is in very nearly perfect condition. Signs of wear are visible with a low powered magnifier. All parts are original; no upgrades or replacements. May be a gun that is in LNIB condition but not accompanied by the factory box or documentation. No breech wear whatsoever. Shooting perfectly and needs nothing. 98-100%



Near Mint
Showing barely noticeable signs of wear. Possibly has very faint scratches on the frame and trigger visible to the naked eye. Completely original in every way, except maybe grip panels or barrel. Might have a faint discoloration in the breech, but no scratches or bare metal. The marker is shooting perfectly and needs nothing. 93-97%



Excellent
Evidence of use is visible to the unaided eye. Any scratches are light, but more numerous than "near mint". Marker is all original, or been upgraded and includes the original parts (with the exception of grips and barrel). Possibly has slight breech wear and frame wear from use, but body and barrel are clean. Shooting perfectly, needs no immediate repair or service. 88-92%



Very Good
The marker shows what might be considered normal wear by a careful player, Scratches are evident, but no nicks or dings. May have replacement parts or upgrades. Running and shooting, though may need minor calibration. Might need a rebuild after a few cases, but is well lubricated with good condition o-rings and seals. 83-87%



Good
Nothing fundamentally wrong with the gun, though it has quite obviously been used. Shooting and usable, but may not be perfectly tuned. Body may show a few dings, nicks, or scratches. May not have all original parts. Might need lubrication, new o-rings, or other soft parts for optimal functionality, but is functional. 77-82%



Fair
Well used, may require service and/or restoration to be usable. May be functioning erratically. Major components may not be original, but no pieces are missing. Even an untrained eye could tell the gun is worse for wear. Some might call it rough. 72-76%



Poor
Shows abuse, requires service and/or restoration. May have major cosmetic flaws, missing parts, may not fire at all. A speculative piece - 'fixer-upper' would be too generous. Not junk, but requires lots of work to be made usable. 66-71%



Scrap / Parts
A collection of parts that at one time may have been a functioning marker. Now missing parts, may be rusted or corroded, not worth restoring. Most people would call it junk. 64% or worse.

[Loguzzzzzz]

I am going to start this by saying that this is just my opinion and I realize that it means crap to everyone else but me. That being said. . . .I can see that the both of you are too proud to let this one die.

If I had a customer that was so upset with our transaction as to go to such extreme measures, I could not refund that person's money fast enough, but then that is just me.

UThomas,

You are obviously a person who believes that he has done no wrong here but in an effort to save face, if I were you I would have refunded all the money long before it got to this. There is no way that you will be able to resurrect your reputation unless you do.

Whether ArmEngineer has taken pictures that seem to "highlight" the flaws in this X Mag or not the fact still remains that these flaws exist. You advertised the X mag as "Excellent", not in excellent shape for a used marker but "Excellent", it clearly is not.

I remember reading somewhere in this thread that you are a mod on another forum, not sure which one but maybe you should put your "Moderator's Hat" on and look at this objectively. Take the emotions out of this and I believe that you will see what this has done to your reputation. As far as AO is concerned you have done irreparable damage and will most likely have a very tough time living this one down.

The way I see it you have two choices, refund ArmyEngineer all of his money and have him return everything you sent him or leave things as they are, ruin your reputation here and run the risk of never having a transaction on AO again.

People rarely forget matters such as these.

Just my $0.02

**steps of soap box**

[ArmyEngineer]

Thomas, surely you know that the electronics are compartmentalized. The paint was in the section where the sear lives. You can try to paint the condition of the marker however you want. Your position is clear, as is mine. Your photos are not representative and that has been explained. If the damage wasn't there, it wouldn't matter what angle or lighting was employed. It simply wouldn't show. You can carry on about paint and rusty detent balls if you want, but don't confuse the issue here. That is petty, and not what I am complaining about.

I have cleaned up my fair share of e-mags. I think you alluded to my history of dissatisfaction. The only purchase that could possibly be was this one. http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=246303 I think Frizzle described it as looking like it had fallen in a septic tank. lol Going back through all of my posts trying to dig up dirty laundry is pretty low/immature.

Thomas, the "strobe light" (actually 60W floor lamp) pictures do not show the dings well, scratches yes. I took them before I thought about the spot metering mode on my camera. That is why I took more. As for the variation of appearance from one angle to the next, learn something about how your camera works vs human vision. Again, if the damage wasn't there it wouldn't show up ever. I didn't do anything magical to make the marker look bad.

I keep having to repeat the same responses to your claims. You are stubborn and immature. You also have a terrible sense of business and the ethics involved.

Just when I hoped we were making progress.



Hill, thank you for the kind words. I would be proud to claim active duty. I am an Army civilian, and I do what I do to help improve our warfighters' odds. It's a fun job, and extremely rewarding. We owe them everything we have.


Frizzle, that would be a great sticky, I think.

[CatoRockwell]

Frizzle, that would be a great sticky, I think.

Agreed, I think those clearly define what condition the marker should be in to receive a certain label.

Beemer, I was not aware of anything going on when I read the post on his sale thread, I wasn't saying you were wrong, simply that to a third party who did not know the underlying situation it looked bad. I was humbly submitting my recommendation to be careful in such matters.

[zondo]

sweet burn! -_-

But it's true... he didn't offer a refund.

I find your offer #5 very respectable. Now lets get it cleared up ok boys? We should make it a rule around here...If you want to sell here, state your refund policy in your ad. There should be no questions asked when someone wants a refund. It is standard business practice.

Interesting point that should probably be discussed in it's own thread. I think there are pluses and minuses here.

2) He has highlight a 1.5x1.5 inch section of the marker he feels has some pitting issues (not scratched - not thin anno). We disagree on how they look in natural light - but obviously they show up in those conditions. Compare to my pics in regular lighting at normal distance.When I sell guns I don't put them under a spot light to find flaws I don't see normally. At the start of this complaint I was originally just shown zoomed in pics with a bright light on them that makes the gun look purple:

This seems to be the fundamental point. You agree to disagree on the definition of the condition and that your pictures don't show what his do. Discriminating or not, the buyer had an expectation (unreasonable or not) that wasn't met. If there are buyers waiting, as you say, then re-selling shouldn't be an issue.

When I saw that - after he had gone to the mods who were making bratty posts (Beemer) on my sale thread - I thought "this guy is a jerk and either has buyers remorse or is not a reasonable buyer."

3) I would offer him a full refund if I thought anything other than a NIB marker would have satisfied him to begin with or if I failed to provide him opportunities to learn about the markers cosmetic condition. I also was extremely aggravated that I found this issue out through a passive aggressive post by Beemer on the sale thread. That did not show me good faith on his part. As such - I offered to put him in contact with other interested buyers with cash in hand. Which he ignored - which again lead me to believe this is just not a reasonable buyer. You can see other posts he has made where he bought markers and had buyers remorse for not asking questions about the condition.

I also have a high expectation based on the interest I received at the $760 price point that he would be able to flip it quickly and for minimal (if any) loss. But he would have to do the "footwork" - which I think is reasonable and fair.

I do agree that I would be pissed off, as well, if I found out about a dispute by a mod posting in my thread. Did Beemer just tell you to F-off after you called him on it or did he apologize? I've seen him act first and apologize later, but I get the feeling that not many seem to forgive but decide to hold grudges instead.

It sounds like Army just wants his money back and not asking for a NIB marker. Again, if there are other interested buyers, it seems like this whole issue is belabored because of the level of distrust between both of you and you wanting to make a point. He is the buyer not the seller and it shouldn't be his obligation to flip the marker because his expectations weren't met. If there is such distrust, I'm sure that there would be a reputable person to act as 3rd party to make sure a return goes well. Shoot, with all the lip service being paid to this thread, there's probably someone who'd do it for free.

Not one negative there (though I have had one here - a 14 yo kid who bought a max flo here about 7 years ago turned it up past venting pressure - and then paid a tech $50 to turn it down). I also didn't offer that kid a refund.

This is apples to oranges, and you know it.