Trouble with UThomas

[Ando]

Agreed, I think those clearly define what condition the marker should be in to receive a certain label.

Beemer, I was not aware of anything going on when I read the post on his sale thread, I wasn't saying you were wrong, simply that to a third party who did not know the underlying situation it looked bad. I was humbly submitting my recommendation to be careful in such matters.

Beemer knew exactly what was going on.

He knows all

[Beemer]

Beemer - thanks for your continued constructive contributions to this process.

You are welcome. You are the one who let it get to this point. I already told AE to feel free to post any PMs I sent him and I will tell you the same. Is it ok with you If I post your PMs??

The fact is I dont need permission to post what I sent in PMs. It would look bad seeing only one side of the convo and be bad judgement. With that said I will stand by all my PMs sent to you and him. It wont bother me in the least if they go from Private M to Public M.

Also know this. If it was YOU on the other end of the stick I would be standing in front just like I am now with ArmyE. You are our friend and he is our friend. We are only as strong as our weakest link. All I know is you are both members of AO. Some might say this thread is making AO look BAD. I would agree but then I remember this quote.

"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27590474@N07/4288570448/

Good or bad, big or small AO is a rock, we will stand in matters of principle.

This is a post that I removed from your sale thread, it is back now.

"Just an FYI on what GOOD traders do on AO."

Thread. http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...24#post2719524

Now that I thank of it a little more. If you are so unhappy with it, send it back and Ill refund your money when I recieve it. I can always put it back in my stash for a later build.
My shipping address is as follows:

Guy Dailey
312-T Schillinger Rd #342
Mobile, Al 36608

Thanks Beemer. Im not tring to rip anyone off, I just want to move these parts so I can pay off somethings. But I dont want unhappy customers eather.

This is what AO is. Do the right thing. PM ArmyE make it right and get him to remove this thread. It will not be removed by the mods. Your call.

[Beemer]

Beemer, I was not aware of anything going on when I read the post on his sale thread, I wasn't saying you were wrong, simply that to a third party who did not know the underlying situation it looked bad. I was humbly submitting my recommendation to be careful in such matters.

But you are right. I was wrong. It looked BAD. I know it looked bad and I apologized. The thread and posts were removed and the member was given the chance to make it right, but look where we are now. The Thread and all posts are back.

Would I do it all over again? Absolutely. We stand like a rock or we dont stand at all.

[CatoRockwell]

I respect that you are willing to admit that and removed your post. That says a lot about your character.

[BigEvil]

I respect that you are willing to admit that and removed your post. That says a lot about your character.

You can say what you want about his age, looks, bad breath, clothes, or the fact that he prefers girlie-drinks, but he is a 110% stand up guy and his heart is ALWAYS in the right place.

It's situations like that that scare the crap out of me when selling high end items. I always try to understate the condition, provide tons of pics, and clearly state any potential issues. I would rather have a buyer get something better than he expected than worst.

If this was me, I would feel obligated to offer the buyer a full refund, minus shipping.

Just my $.02

[going_home]

If this was me, I would feel obligated to offer the buyer a full refund, minus shipping.

Agreed, but I'd do a full refund and he would eat the shipping back to me.

[BigEvil]

Agreed, but I'd do a full refund and he would eat the shipping back to me.

[Alpha {MWB}]

Goodness. This is why i am so picky as a buyer, always the big chance of getting into a situation like this. Hope everything works out guys.

Whole movies are based off misscommunications smaller than this.

[Newt]

Lots of opinions here. Here's a couple facts:

#1
I personally own & operate a business which provides custom made tools in the price range of this sale. When a customer is not 100% happy with their purchase within 30 days (I usually give more), they may return it to me for a full refund. This is nearly universal practice whenever you pay with a credit card. That includes even buyers remorse, wife decided they needed more $ for Christmas, or whatever. When I buy something, I expect to be treated the same way.

#2
Platitudes aside, that post on item conditions needs to be added to the BST rules sticky.

#3
Hooray Beer!


If anything, this whole mess needs to serve as an indicator that the BST rules should be amended. If AO has standards, it would be a great idea to have them in writing.

[UThomas]

Thanks for the different points of view guys. Obviously everyone brings their own past experiences to the table, and only 2 of us have actually seen the marker in person to gauge what condition it is in.

Army - you have options I've outlined, feel free to PM me. I have not ignored any of your PM's throughout the process.

I have had over 15 years of positive transactions on the net selling paintball goods starting with rec.sport.paintball on usenet in the early/mid 90's (TIP#817 for those who know what that is). I have had exceptionally few buyer disputes, the last one being ~7 years ago on here as referenced. I have also had very few seller disputes, but I know what type of buyer I am and I take ownership in the process and make sure I get all the evidence I need to feel good about the transaction. I am not a guy with a beer budget and champaign tastes. I resell the gun if I get it and it doesn't meet my expectations (I did this with a rare lifesaver fade evolution a/c within the last year to a satisfied buyer).

If, at the end of the day, this turns out to be one of those exceptions because Army does not like his options and my attempt to satisfy them in what I consider a fair and reasonable manner, then I am comfortable with that. This post was not a surprise - we obviously were not able to come to a meeting of the minds through PM either. He is exerting the leverage he has - I don't have a problem with that.

I am doing what I think is the right thing to do in this transaction; it is not about the money. I think myself or Army can resell that gun without taking a loss in a heart beat. That is partially the basis for my stance on the "full" refund. I would like him to take some ownership in the process of this transaction - I feel like he has wasted a ton of my time before/during/after the transaction, and if he wants to waste more of it to resell his gun there is a fee associated with it. If, on the other hand, he is willing to invest his own time in it - he will likely recoup ALL of his money. He could even recoup more given that price is one of the lowest prices an even decent condition x-mag has sold for on AO in the last 5 years. He will also get some needed experience IMO as a seller of that type of gun. I'm very curious to see what his ad description looks like and if it includes pictures of more than just a 1.5x1.5 of the marker...

I think for me, standard practice going forward is going to video tape all markers I sell and post on youtube. I've done this with several markers recently and had good results (a C&C X-mag and an 11 year old westwood autococker). For this, given the condition I perceived this marker to be in having seen it in person, and the quality of pictures I was able to take of it, I felt that was not necessary. Live and learn.

Thomas

[Ando]

Your a straight up piece of **** Thomas and shouldn't be outlining any options to anyone. No one cares how long you been playing, selling or blowing smoke up peoples ***es. I hope Beemer bans you indefinitely for this. There's an old saying....You can be the greatest bridge builder in the world but suck one **** and your labeled a **** sucker for the rest of your life. That's going to be your reign on AO...

Your perceivance of the marker was **** and you wanting money from a sour deal that is completely your fault is down right an ***-hole thing to do. Welcome to the Chris Nearchos club.

EDIT:

Is perceivance a word?

[Flatliner333]

[teufelhunden]

Your a straight up piece of **** Thomas and shouldn't be outlining any options to anyone. No one cares how long you been playing, selling or blowing smoke up peoples ***es. I hope Beemer bans you indefinitely for this. There's an old saying....You can be the greatest bridge builder in the world but suck one **** and your labeled a **** sucker for the rest of your life. That's going to be your reign on AO...

Your perceivance of the marker was **** and you wanting money from a sour deal that is completely your fault is down right an ***-hole thing to do. Welcome to the Chris Nearchos club.

EDIT:

Is perceivance a word?

I literally laughed at my desk. At you.

[zondo]

Is perceivance a word?

I think you meant perception... but you were on a roll and I went with it.

[georgeyew]

Thomas,

Your time would not have been wasted if you would have answered his questions honestly. I don't think that he had to ask you about the condition of every part of the marker for you to realize that he is an extremely picky buyer. And since you knew that he was picky, you should have known that he would have cared about scratches on other parts of the marker as well (not just the parts he specifically asked about). You described the anno as "looks almost new". That is far from accurate. When I sell things whether by mail or in person, I always give the buyers a chance to look over the product. If they are not happy, I have no problems giving back the money. That's just how I do things.