Trouble with UThomas

[Newt]

I think you guys should agree to some 3rd party that you both respect who has a long history in the industry with selling/purchasing, ship the marker out to him, have him make a personal determination on quality.

That's an excellent ideal with two problems:
Neither party is going to budge here short of ninja suited federal alphabet soup agency boys showing up at their doors. All bridges concerned are well and truly burned. Who here would purchase this marker now at the price it originally sold for?

Also, the issue is not the condition of the gun The issue is that the customer is unsatisfied with the merchandise and has asked for a refund. When the customer asks for a refund within a reasonable time frame (30 days is completely standard), you give him an RMA number, and return funds to the original account when the goods arrive. Period.

[UThomas]

That's an excellent ideal with two problems:
Neither party is going to budge here short of ninja suited federal alphabet soup agency boys showing up at their doors. All bridges concerned are well and truly burned. Who here would purchase this marker now at the price it originally sold for?

Also, the issue is not the condition of the gun The issue is that the customer is unsatisfied with the merchandise and has asked for a refund. When the customer asks for a refund within a reasonable time frame (30 days is completely standard), you give him an RMA number, and return funds to the original account when the goods arrive. Period.

First, Army has not PM'd me about his multiple current options - but there is still a chance. It will be unfortunate if something doesn't work out - this situation does not currently have any "winners" and neither of us are satisfied.

That said, I am not a store. I do not do RMA's or unconditional refunds. I do not promise unconditional refund at any point as a term of sale and they are not assumed (esp for used goods). Many many companies, from F500 retailers to local stores, have restocking fees, and many are more than 10%.

I'll also say - that this marker should sell quickly (for him or me) given the interest I had at the price point he bought it for - which is historically on the very low end for an xmag. I am not concerned about the resale - and if he was interested he could have taken my original point and sold it in the first week he got it to the guy he was ahead of in line. You can see multiple ones posted in the $1100 range right now, and gloss black is a very popular color from what I've seen over the years. For better or worse, not as many people read the Talk forum on AO as you might think.

Thanks-

Thomas

[maniacmechanic]

I think one big problem here is the different (maybe particularly your) view of 'excellent'. That last pic of the marker is a bit more representative of actual condition, but I would not call that marker 'excellent', maybe 'great condition' but not excellent...

Last pic was of the right side , it was stated earlier that there are no flaw's on that side , all the problems are on the left side

[Tunaman]

With the reputation for quality that AGD has always had, I would find it hard to beleive that this left their hands in this pitted and/or dinged up condition. If this is in fact factory anodizing, I wonder if it was a reject that got back doored?

Alot of these Xmags came FROM THE FACTORY with not so perfect anno jobs. There were guns with PLENTY of dings UNDER the anno because of low quailty polishing, as there is today. Nothing is perfect, and you can't expect it to be. It is what it is. I'll buy it right now.

[Chris]

I don't think that Thomas deliberately misrepresented the condition of the marker. Having owned numerous gloss black markers in the past, I know that it is difficult to get a good surface photo. Additionally, those pock-marks do not appear to be scratches, but rather a metal preparation issue prior to anno. I'd also be royally pissed if I felt that a buyer went to a mod before discussing the issue with me.

I have had very few issues with buyers myself, one was recently where I sold a PGP, I threw a 12g in it and shot a few rounds in the back yard before sending it out, to make sure that it worked...unfortunately, I removed the 12g after a few shots, and froze some o-rings. Needless to say, when the buyer received it, it leaked. We were able to work out a deal, where I purchased some spare parts for him to make it right...in the end we both walked away happy. On the flip side, many years back, I sold a used mask. Photos of it were posted, and when the buyer received it, he was upset about the paint stains. They were clearly shown, and discussions were going nowhere...nothing I could do to make it right short of a full refund, which was unreasonable in my opinion.

That being said, I think the best thing AE can do, if he is truly dis-satisfied with the X-mag, is to put it up for sale. He'll get his money back, and likely be able to turn it for a profit. Go ahead and put UThomas on your 'don't buy list', and consider this a lesson learned in being overly specific about what you are looking for.

[Chris]

Alot of these Xmags came FROM THE FACTORY with not so perfect anno jobs. There were guns with PLENTY of dings UNDER the anno because of low quailty polishing, as there is today. Nothing is perfect, and you can't expect it to be. It is what it is. I'll buy it right now.

I couldn't agree more. Just like a model, most of the X-mags need a little photoshop to make them look 'perfect'.

[Frizzle Fry]

Alot of these Xmags came FROM THE FACTORY with not so perfect anno jobs. There were guns with PLENTY of dings UNDER the anno because of low quailty polishing, as there is today. Nothing is perfect, and you can't expect it to be. It is what it is. I'll buy it right now.

I would tend to agree, but there are definite scratches in a pattern around the detent, and those would tend to disqualify the marker from "excellent" or "like new" condition.

[going_home]

Sell the marker to Tuna and please let this thread die the death.

[Tunaman]

Put a coat of GOOD car wax on there like Natty's Black and 90 percent of those swirl marks will be gone.

[UThomas]

So I realized after a lot of the posts that most people were not looking at the pics I posted and linked to - just his embedded pics. So some additional photos for you guys (got my DSLR and looked the the originals and a few others I had taken). No editing done except to crop the picture (no auto adjust):

His pic of "bad" spot (other side acknowledged flawless cosmetically, and it is functionally flawless) with direct ultra bright lighting:


His pic - same spot but shined light focused lower:


My original pics of the "bad" spot - anything with white background is in a diffused natural light box (I bought it just for paintball pics -don't judge me :) ) - the mat pics are from a saturday afternoon on my front porch.

He states "The damage is very visible."

[UThomas]

Hopefully that helps explain why I described the marker the way I did and have been rejecting comparisons to "terrible bondo work and a $150 MACCO paint job."

That is what the WORST part of the marker looks like in normal conditions..

[Drix]

I still wouldn't describe this gun as excellent, and therefore I'm not sure it was represented accuratly. Guess we'll see how the flaming continues though- I do believe that comparisons to $150 macco jobs might be a bit much however.

[ArmyEngineer]

That is what the WORST part of the marker looks like in normal conditions..

No it's not. That's the warp breech too. But this is over. Thomas has fixed this. And I am tired of arguing.

He has offered to partially cover a reanodizing. I think his offer is fair and reasonable.

This has been a very heated discussion, and I feel like we have touched on some things that should be stickied in the BST thread. Spelling out condition thresholds will hopefully prevent a buyer-seller disconnect in the future.

Squashed. (And there was much rejoicing throughout the land.)

[Drix]

Hurray!

+ 1 for better rules on the stickies.

[ArmyEngineer]

Thomas sent me a PayPal gift.