Need opinions, need input. The state of paintball.

[OPBN]

No. I wish I was too. However seeing the arrogant 'tough guy' schtick that I see these days, its whats needed. You mouth somebody off, get in their face, swearing at them, and insulting them....thats exactly what they deserve.

How did you stop a bully from bothering you 20 years ago ? You beat the **** out of him after school and he never bugged you again. Nowadays, we need to wear a pink shirt, and just talk about it. Everything will work out ok..........right....?

Big difference between punching a cocky kid at a paintball field and standing up to a bully. If you can't see that, you have some serious issues my friend. Anyone that advocates assault as a means of cleaning up paintball needs to find another hobby.

[ghost271]

Well theres a difference between what I would like to do and think should happen as opposed to what I would actually do. Have I punched a kid at a paintball field before ? No. I'm 37 years old now and dont need a criminal record. Do I think his parents need to give him a swift kick in his *** to make him lose his attitude and poor behaviour ? Yes.

The fact of the matter is, is that these new kids and their attitudes are not needed and shouldn't be tolerated at a field. I have had some 20+'s get in my face playing rec ball, where any police officer would have seen me as simply defending myself due to his aggressive approach and stance.

20 years ago, yes I would get in a fight with somebody that acted like. One on One. After it was over, most times we became friends.

Im not going to apologize for my stance on this matter. If more parents disciplined their kids at home, they wouldn't be acting this way on the field or out in public. Its pretty bad when I see 18 year old kids telling a group of 45 year old adults who are out playing with their kids to 'Get over it. If you don't like it then don't play" after they've gone uncapped ramped on them.

But since my stance offends you then I'll put it this way.

" Can all you teens and twenty somethings who like to overshoot, swear, mock, and laugh at the new players please stop ? We just want to play nice and have a good time. God knows that you are the foundation of our great sport and we can't subsist without you. Most of us 'ole timers' with over twenty years of experiance know nothing compared to you . For that we apologize. "

Maybe if we just all thought of bunnies and rainbows the world would be a better place.

As we used to say in the army, " Suck it up Princess".

[MAGpie]

Big difference between punching a cocky kid at a paintball field and standing up to a bully. If you can't see that, you have some serious issues my friend. Anyone that advocates assault as a means of cleaning up paintball needs to find another hobby.

Posted this on a different form some time ago... I believe, this would be a more corect method, than assault. I was talking about cheating, specifically, and how to curb it.

[ghost271]

Oh and in regards to this statement, "Big difference between punching a cocky kid at a paintball field and standing up to a bully."

Please pray tell. What is the difference between some thug pushing you and making fun of you on some school field, and some kid overshooting you a dozen times with a paintball gun and laughing at you ?
I guess wearing a mask and signing a waiver makes one exempt from the official title of ' Bully' ?

[MAGpie]

Oh and in regards to this statement, "Big difference between punching a cocky kid at a paintball field and standing up to a bully."

Please pray tell. What is the difference between some thug pushing you and making fun of you on some school field, and some kid overshooting you a dozen times with a paintball gun and laughing at you ?
I guess wearing a mask and signing a waiver makes one exempt from the official title of ' Bully' ?

Well, last kid that over shot me was 5'7" tall, average build... pretty fair in size etc. Thing is, I am 6'4", and I am not average built. I am big. Not over weight, just big.

I would not call that child a... bully. Man, how degrading to myself.
He was however, a jerk. And after I pulled him aside with a marshal, explained how my next step would be to notify the police of the case of assault, then take legal action against the field for not enforcing its rules and regulations in regards to ROF limits and marker FPS, yes , he was running hot, well, I got a free game voucher for the next month, and little boy blue was told never to return to the field.

You don't have to physically touch anyone. And indeed, you should not. My goodness, how is beating up a cheater reflecting anything positive on paintball? What if he runs to the paper and tells how "poor little Timmy got beaten up by some 6'4" tall gorilla at the field..." Talk about bad PR. The truth is irrelevant in this case. It is the publicity that will do the damage. How many mothers will tell their kids not to go play PB, because, in this case, you, the bully, is lurking there.

They are not bullies. They are testosterone junkies, sadists, or simple attention craved children. The only way to deal with those kinds of people effectively is to take their toys away from them.

And that, can only honestly be done, by proper marshalling, and good, consistent enforcement of the rules.

[ghost271]

Well, last kid that over shot me was 5'7" tall, average build... pretty fair in size etc. Thing is, I am 6'4", and I am not average built. I am big. Not over weight, just big.

I would not call that child a... bully. Man, how degrading to myself.
He was however, a jerk. And after I pulled him aside with a marshal, explained how my next step would be to notify the police of the case of assault, then take legal action against the field for not enforcing its rules and regulations in regards to ROF limits and marker FPS, yes , he was running hot, well, I got a free game voucher for the next month, and little boy blue was told never to return to the field.

You don't have to physically touch anyone. And indeed, you should not. My goodness, how is beating up a cheater reflecting anything positive on paintball? What if he runs to the paper and tells how "poor little Timmy got beaten up by some 6'4" tall gorilla at the field..." Talk about bad PR. The truth is irrelevant in this case. It is the publicity that will do the damage. How many mothers will tell their kids not to go play PB, because, in this case, you, the bully, is lurking there.

They are not bullies. They are testosterone junkies, sadists, or simple attention craved children. The only way to deal with those kinds of people effectively is to take their toys away from them.

And that, can only honestly be done, by proper marshalling, and good, consistent enforcement of the rules.

I agree with you on all points MAGpie. I myself am 6'1, 230lbs and been doing martial arts since i was 13 and up till 4 years ago fought competitively. Like I previously stated. I have yet to punch anyone at a paintball field (come close) and at my age would be stupid (unless my personal safety was at risk). The *** kicking should be coming from the parents to start with. How do I deal with them on the field personally ? I overshoot the hell out of them just as bad as they dish it out. And many mothers are not going to let their kids come back to play paintball once they see the bleeding welts all over their childs body because of some kid who thinks rec ball is Speedball. I am far from the bully. Im the one teching the new kids Tippmann, handing out free paint to kids who have half empty hoppers, and giving them pointers after a game. Do I take crap from people ? No.

Unfortunately the only way you can take the toys away from these kids is to have their parents do it. Perhaps if their parents stayed around or saw how their kids played they would take their markers away, but I doubt that happens very much.

In regards to stopping cheating, I think its beyond preventing. This game is honor based, and theres always going to be the cheaters who cant stand being shot out by a pump player or losing in general.

I apologize for my rant. I have seen the game degrade far from what it was in the late 80's to what it is now. What I would like to see happen is to put 8 bps cap on electros, and more mechanicals and pumps out on the field. Will it happen ? I doubt it, but I think the massive resurgence of pump play is because people see the fun and skill in it and its a more econimical way to enjoy the sport.

[MAGpie]

I apologize for my rant. I have seen the game degrade far from what it was in the late 80's to what it is now. What I would like to see happen is to put 8 bps cap on electros, and more mechanicals and pumps out on the field. Will it happen ? I doubt it, but I think the massive resurgence of pump play is because people see the fun and skill in it and its a more econimical way to enjoy the sport.

[XM15]

I think a lot of things contributed to the drop in paintball but there are 3 things that are the biggest. First is the speedball format. This made it possible for any body with a football field of space to open a field. Then they allowed electro machine guns shooting 720-900 balls per min to be used on these little fields. The last thing they did was let way to young of kids out on those fields with nothing but a rental tippmann 98 or some spyder type gun. Those poor kids never had a chance. I can't tell you how many 12 year olds I have seen frozen in fear just sitting in a bunker not moving and after 3 or 4 games they were done. They weren't just done for the day you could tell they were done with paintball. In the last couple of years around here things have gotton better woodsball seems to be more popular again. That's what fields need to do in my opinion is get paintball back in the woods especially for rec play. It slows the game down in both speed and fire power. My buddy brought his twin 14 year old boys to a woodsball scenario game we played last fall and they had a blast. His one son even wanted a pump gun after playing. I think that's the experince all young players should have not getting over shot on a airball field at 12 to 15bps cowaring behind a dorrito.

[bound for glory]

but some of these young kids take the rudeness to a different level. i played castle with my emag and some young kid said(loud enough for his little gang to hear) "hey! a f*g with a mag"! now, at the time, i was 38 years old. this guy was about 17 or 18. ofcorse, he was tricked out in a tourney jersey, had a high end dye marker. all the new crap. ditto his gang. i was shocked. really. i could have punched my fist right through this little weeds face. but all i could say was, "i'm not gay". great come back, huh?

[ghost271]

but some of these young kids take the rudeness to a different level. i played castle with my emag and some young kid said(loud enough for his little gang to hear) "hey! a f*g with a mag"! now, at the time, i was 38 years old. this guy was about 17 or 18. of corse, he was tricked out in a tourney jersey, had a high end dye marker. all the new crap. ditto his gang. i was shocked. really. i could have punched my fist right through this little weeds face. but all i could say was, "i'm not gay". great come back, huh?

LOL !
Good to see Im not the only one !
There were a few times at our field when a couple guys had tried to pull the tough guy routine on both myself and another friend of mine whos a Shihan and runs his own MMA school. I currently hold a red belt (Brown equivalent in most other styles) in Pankration. Its funny because when these guys start getting heated up, the other one of us would stand back and wait for the 'show' to begin. We'd hope that these guys would throw the first punch and then the speedy *** whooping would ensue. Thats one of the joys of training in the dojo. Once the whole UFC fad/cool factor kicked in, every kid and their dog wanted to learn to fight. The big body builder roid types would get owned for two hours a class and you'd never see them again.

A word of advice for anybody out there who feels intimidated by some of these loud mouth jackasses on the field. 9 out of 10 times its the guys with the big mouths that cant back up what their spewwing. Its the calm quiet guy standing in the back ground minding his own business you need to worry about.

And I think this type of mentallity carries over into paintball too. Look at the senior recballers out there who still play with their pump guns. Nothing pisses of a kid with a $1500 gun more or bruises his ego than some old guy shooting him out with a PGP. :rofl:

Skill trumps all. And that can only be developed with years of play time and experience.

[koleah]

but some of these young kids take the rudeness to a different level. i played castle with my emag and some young kid said(loud enough for his little gang to hear) "hey! a f*g with a mag"! now, at the time, i was 38 years old. this guy was about 17 or 18. ofcorse, he was tricked out in a tourney jersey, had a high end dye marker. all the new crap. ditto his gang. i was shocked. really. i could have punched my fist right through this little weeds face. but all i could say was, "i'm not gay". great come back, huh?

Walk up to him, make that limp wristed f*g hand motion, maybe stroke his shoulder and bat your eyes, and say "Well how could tell big boy, those sure are some pretty lips; its too bad I didn't bring my cocker today since I can totally tell you would love to play with it. Maybe you could help me with my balls? I think my bolt might need some lube... (etc etc)"

Freak him out

[kwik175]

Well I have been playing since 95 and have seen paintball come and go in my area and also in my life. The last 2 years it has really been hot in my area (central PA). Several local fields for rec ball and with just a couple hours drive speedball tourney fields. Most of the problems I encounter are the field owners wanting to run a rec field like like an xball field. They want teams and tournaments and turn a few pallets into speedball practice. Now we have a few so called teams of kids trying to act as though they are competing at a national level showing up at field where most of the rentals are shooting 98's. Of course ROF is an issue because our local fields don't limit it. Its not fun trying to play woodsball with a guy firing 30 bps from the fort. And as previously stated field owners like the business so no one gets reprimanded. I know that cost is an issue and alot of noobs may not have the money or ability to travel, but if you want to play as team and play speedball, then go where the field only offers that. My PSP team travels to Pittsburgh, Philly, Maryland, etc to play speedball. When we go to a local field we dont wear our team jerseys and dont play as a team. I use my mags at local fields to at least bring my gun down to a rec level. Trying to mix team tourney style play at a rec field is killing the sport in my area. Just my opinion.

[38super]

This past Sunday I got lit up while calling myself out repeatedly as I tried to leave a second floor building in an attack/defend game. First I raised my hand and waved it in the open window and the guy shoots my hand several times. Try again with the hand, he shoots it again. Pop my head up to yell directly at him since he was only 12 yards away and he shoots me in the face, chest, top of the head and gun. He's got his gun shooting full auto I guess and it sounds like 20+/second-ish. I must've taken at least 15 hits. Screaming at him all the way I exit the building walking down the stairs and he keeps shooting, knowing full well I'm pissed off and not caring at all. Guy was in his late 20's-early 30's. Certainly old enough to know better.

Ref just shrugs and say he didn't see it.

I've been playing off and on for 20 years, rec only, walk-on mostly. Usually people are fine but every so often I run into one of these jerks who just don't care. It ruins it for new guys, and frankly sucks the fun out of it for me.

Now I could have taken my electro out of the bag and made him my mission in life for the rest of the evening, but I have no interest in being a poor sport or carrying anger around. It isn't fun and I can just stay home and not have fun and spend less, so I opted to leave instead. I admit, I fantasized briefly about butt-stroking him in the head, but the thought of criminal charges was a great limiter. Mentioned to the field staff why I was leaving and again, a shrug.

I also noted that the ref had very poor control of the field. Waiting for the game to start (half hour...?) with people standing around in a clot just firing their guns in all directions, usually in front of someone's face or just over their heads...at their feet, etc. Completely random and chaotic.

I think field owners need to establish professional standards of practice and sportsmanship, a clear and consistent rule-set, spell them out and and enforce them. Guys who spend lots of money but drive away customers are no bargain in the long term, and they should have their chains jerked but quick.

[bound for glory]

i certainly was'nt intimadated by the little jerk. if the kid knew he was calling a former skinhead a f*g, well, he would have thought twice about it. and even at 38 i would have shoved him or got in his face if i was'nt good friends with blue and the staff at EMR.

[peteralexander78]

I do agree with all the points said. But for me personally, I play woodsball and I am the one organizing games. I cannot control who my friends bring one time but I trust most of them not to make the same mistake again. I feel the biggest issue with the market is cost. I lost my job and an now trying to get my game on again. My issue is that the cost of paint alone has gone up $10-15 a case in 2 years. The game already cost enough for gear and other stuff.