Autocockers?

[OPBN]

So played some rec ball yesterday and oddly enough ended up with a great group of guys, a lot of which were shooting CCM pumps or older markers like Cockers, PGP, PPS etc. Had probably one of the best rec play days in a very long time. And it was at a field we normally hate to play at, so overall it was really awesome.

On to my question. As mentioned a few guys were playing with CCM/Autococker pumps (Snipers for you anal retentive about correctness) and some Autocockers. I have been somewhat intrigued by Cockers for awhile but honestly been scared off partially because I always hear how hard they can be to tune/sycronize and also because I need another brand obsession like I need a third nipple.

With that said, I am thinking about sticking my toes in the water and picking up an inexpensive cocker.
1. I have seen/heard that Trilogies are cheap, but is there a reason? What pitfalls should I steer clear of?
2. I also prefer vert feed markers so I assume I am looking for 2k+ only right?
3. Can all Autocockers be converted to pumps if I choose to go that route?
4. What interchageability issues to I need be concerned with?
5. Can all Cockers/snipers be half blocked? If so, what all is involved besides getting the body milled and installing a sled?

I'm sure other questions will pop up as/if this progresses.

I know there is customcockers, but I figured I would get more straight answers possibly here from people I know. Not looking for fanboyism on either end, just honest non-biased info.

[IrishRedneck86]

1. I have seen/heard that Trilogies are cheap, but is there a reason? What pitfalls should I steer clear of?
2. I also prefer vert feed markers so I assume I am looking for 2k+ only right?
3. Can all Autocockers be converted to pumps if I choose to go that route?
4. What interchageability issues to I need be concerned with?
5. Can all Cockers/snipers be half blocked? If so, what all is involved besides getting the body milled and installing a sled?

1. The Trilogies are great shooters some "PURIST" dont care for them because they came out just after WGP was sold to JT and you cant change the 3way because it is built into the body.

2. Yes as a general rule for cockers vertfeed is most common in 2K+ but you can find some PRE99 ones as well Ive personally had a few.

3. Yes all cockers can be made into a pump all ya have to do the take the front block off and install the pump kit.

4. The main problems people run into are Year range differences for size such as Pre2K banjo bolt is smaller than the 2K+, then you have the different valve sizes, and then the different bolt sizes ranging from longest to shortest Pre2K, 2K+, EVO, Midblock, Halfblock.

5. Again yes all cockers can be halfblocked besides the milling and bolt your gonna need the mid/half block slotted hammer for the bolt pin to catch and cock the gun as it removes the cocking rod and back block to cock the gun.

[OPBN]

Are all frames interchangeable? I have seen a trilogy pump for sale that interests me, but hate the frame thats on it and would like to put an 86* frame on it. Why do some of the frames have the big space on the top of them like this:

[IrishRedneck86]

Yeah all frames are interchangeable as long as its made to fit on a cocker. What do you mean by the big space on top are you talking about above the trigger because thats where the whole trigger mechanism and sear assembly is so with the stock WGP hinge's none of the moving parts dip into the frame handle so its more straight forward design and shorter springs.

If ya post a pic of the trilly I could tell ya more about it. Its just with the trilogies if your gonna make it mech again youll need the Tech T LPR nut so you can use any after market LPR otherwise you gotta get a trilogy LPR, and I would recommend Tech T's trilogy shaft kit which is an adjustable 3way rod for better timing otherwise its a solid shaft and if the pneumatics arent set right its gonna be a pain to shoot if it does at all.

[OPBN]

compare the above picture to this one:



I am talking about the difference in the frame section above the trigger. I always thought the first one looked terribly awkward vs the one in this post. I have seen both types and wasnt sure if this was something that was indicative to one particular year, model etc.

[GEE TEE]

The newer CCM frames like the one shown above won't work on mech semi's. They are made for pump markers only as there's no provision for operating the 3 way timing rod.

Earlier WORKS style CCM hinge frames will be ok on a semi

[OPBN]

So if I am looking at a Trilogy pump the CCM 86 would work on it?

[IrishRedneck86]

Like I said the thicker portion is for the full trigger mechanism because the trigger has to have the added lever/arm to actuate the 3way which is the slot indicated by the green line in the photo below. Where as the CCM 86 frames now are only ment for pump as they are only a simple hinge with the hole behind the trigger for the auto-trigger cam. Some mech frames are a bit smaller on top but not by much and none will be as thin as the CCMs because of the 3way rod.

[IrishRedneck86]

So if I am looking at a Trilogy pump the CCM 86 would work on it?

Yes the CCM 86 will work for the Pump but if you ever want to make it a Mech youll have to buy or use a different frame

[OPBN]

Yes the CCM 86 will work for the Pump but if you ever want to make it a Mech youll have to buy or use a different frame

Im a gun whore, of course I would just buy another one with spare frame sitting around... duh.

The frame on the bottome is better.

[IrishRedneck86]

Yeah the Dye single trigger hinge is my personal favorite unless I want a slider then its the Benchmark 45's. I'm just not big on tons of misc parts sitting around anymore so if Im gonna have a gun that swaps back and forth from pump to mech Ill keep it with one frame so all I have to change is the front end.

[captian pinky]

ive learned my lesson, tried to shoot cockers but they don't like me been shooting a pump since about 2k2,i know i wont be playing with a mech cocker anytime soon.

most people don't like the trilogies. because they are made over seas now and are not the same quality the older cockers are.

but if you are looking for a nice pump let me know i have a couple for sale.

[OPBN]

ive learned my lesson, tried to shoot cockers but they don't like me been shooting a pump since about 2k2,i know i wont be playing with a mech cocker anytime soon.

most people don't like the trilogies. because they are made over seas now and are not the same quality the older cockers are.

but if you are looking for a nice pump let me know i have a couple for sale.

I like to tinker, thus the reason I am sort of interested in one. I really dont care where theyre made so not an issue for me. Maybe if/once I get more into them I will, but the fact that they are cheap works for me.

PM me what you have, I may be interested, but I am truly looking to start pretty cheap unless it has exactly what I am looking for, but even then cash flow isnt great now so cant afford to spend much.

[OPBN]

Another question. I have seen some Cockers that seem to have regs for foregrips. The one the guy had yesterday didn't. I thought maybe just pumps had them, but than I see on on MCB that looks like a mech, but has what appears to be a reg mounted on the foregrip?

Anyone?

[IrishRedneck86]

The normal mech trilogy's being the Basic(Blue), Competition(Black/Red), and Pro(Silver) ones are ok where they get the most problems are the selectfire's. The 3 mech types were still made here but when JT added the electronics they shipped production to their overseas plant to keep cost down.

For front regs its usually best to run all cockers with a HPR reg other wise your trying to keep it tuned with just the IVG and it puts alot of stress on the springs and makes the velocities pretty inconsistant where you can normally just set your hpr around 280-300 PSI and then fine tune your velocity with the IVG only for pump and both IVG/LPR for mech