Since the clock is running...

[Ando]

you dont need a successful product to have a successful forum

[OPBN]

im on another site about dodge neons... they dont make those anymore and the site is GROWING.

How sad.

[BTAutoMag]

yes yes. hit the kid who drives the neon he has no feelings

[OPBN]

yes yes. hit the kid who drives the neon he has no feelings

LOL. I don't care what you drive, but the fact that there is a forum dedicated to it is quite sad. Heck I drive a 14 year old Isuzu Rodeo, I have no business judging peoples rides.

[BTAutoMag]

there are some INSANE cars on there.

I drive a 14 year old Isuzu Rodeo

and you have my sympathies

[OPBN]

there are some INSANE cars on there.




and you have my sympathies

No sympathies needed my friend. 150k miles and the only thing I've ever replaced besides batteries, tires etc is a starter and exhaust peice. Been one of the most reliable vehicles I have ever owned actually. Bought it new in 98.

[BTAutoMag]

well I used to be a mechanic... I would run when one of them came in. in the end, I dont have to think about fixing my neon. its so simple its stupid

[GoatBoy]

My point is this. A company making money looks incredibly easy from the outside looking in. Actually doing it is an entirely different story. My suggestion is BEFORE you put up a lot of capital on something that looks so simple that you fully consider it and talk to people in the industry or with business experience. When I see people explaining to me how much profit is available in something and then list only material costs it makes me wonder who they intend to hire to do it, manage it, handle payroll issues, proper business licenses, insurance (there is a big list, you get the point).

I don't care what you guys do with your money. My suggestion is before you start dumping money into it that you have an operational plan and have actually considered a working business budget.

My point is that it is a massive error to confuse cost of materials with cost of production and distribution.

[Lohman446]

Ok, I have been fairly nice.

This is what I am tired of already after being back a very short time and watching very limited threads:

I am tried of people second guessing and making this "oh TK should have... or AGD should have..." I give an exception to the people who thought AO should be different and stepped up and built a successful forum. I give people like Luke, who wanted something different, built and offered it incredible amounts of credit. However there are a lot of people on here who think it is so simple and straight forward and AGD just did not try or it would have been so easy. Oddly enough these people never seem to grasp the reality of business even when it is pointed out to them by people who have been there and done that.

Here is a hint: AGD has had its IP stolen in the best (google the Colonial paintball marker) and not stepped up and taken anyone to court over it. In fact they have been more than willing to lend the use of trademarks and other IP. If you have such a remarkable idea and all that is stopping you is some IP I suggest that TK may very well rent you the IP cheaply (maybe not, I do not presume to speak for him) and that the IP is probably not worth defending in court.

There are a lot of people who want to second guess everything that AGD and TK did and the reasons they did it. If you can do it better step up. Its very easy for us to risk someone elses capital and pluck numbers out of the air on how cheaply we could produce something and the price we could sell it in vast quantities for.

Successful companies are often those that started in the face of a lot of criticism and stepped up anyways and said can to. However all the "can to" I see on this board is empty with very few actually willing to step up and stick their necks out. Question TKs decisions and AGDs all you want but understand that the decisions they made were made when they had sticks in the fire. Its very easy to say "you should" or "you should have" from a distance. If you have the answers on how easy it would be to make AGD great again put them to use. Invest your money, your time, your effort and your soul into doing it. However get off the sidelines and quit complaing about those who are or have.

When you are able to manufacture and successfully market as more than a niche company a marker based off the mag design in America with a level of service and quality up to the standards of AGD I will even apologize for nay-saying and buy one. Of course with all the money available in paintball still it will mean nothing to you.

[shooter311]

Here is a hint: AGD has had its IP stolen in the best (google the Colonial paintball marker)

I am pretty good with working the Goggle search on the interweb Masheen, but I couldn't find anything.

I'm interested, anyone have any links to this marker?

[Lohman446]

I am pretty good with working the Goggle search on the interweb Masheen, but I couldn't find anything.

I'm interested, anyone have any links to this marker?

You were not kidding about it not being a simple Google search. I was going off memory and thought maybe I had screwed up the name. Here is a thread that discusses it on MCB

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/m...-colonial.html

The MCB thread indicates there was a threat of legal action. I could be wrong on how I remember the story but as I recall it the failure of the company was competetive. AGD was able to economically keep them from ever being a player by offering a better package and price.

This is an old AO thread that may be where I got that thought from:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42768&highlight=colonial

Another old AO thread where the Webmaster stated it was economic competition

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14896&highlight=colonial

[Lohman446]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41733&highlight=colonial

Pay close attention to Manike's response in this thread and then compare it to discussion in other threads. Copying the AGD valve to the tolerances needed to make it reliable is not simple. Others have tried and failed in the past.

[shooter311]

Very interesting, I had no idea there were copycats. It is funny how they didn't even try to mask the Colonial , it was a spitting image of the Mag. Very clever of TK to package deal the mag.

[Spider-TW]

Speaking of "second guessing", I get to watch things get designed by committee pretty often. When we want something done right, we get one guy to design it and another to check it. If it's complicated, it gets broken up. If it's not perfect, you iterate. Never do you stack more brains onto the same issue unless you are pushing another aside.

I say let the man work. At it's worst, it can't be worse than a pre-order or more laughable than the Luxe girl (her pseudonym will come to me later). If we continue to have the "go-to" place for new mag owners (of old mags), we will be able continue to support our custom market and our spares stores. I would guess there's quite a few mags floating around out there that we haven't modded or upgraded yet. I've got plans for a few more.

[GoatBoy]

I am tried of people second guessing and making this "oh TK should have... or AGD should have..."