Some People Never Learn
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
(page 14)
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Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
(page 14)
Last edited by going_home; 03-07-2013, 08:33 PM.
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I feel sorry for both parties on this, but I feel the need to put some responsibility on rrfireblade, I feel like this is one of those things you'd look for when prototyping- he seems to have lost his edge.
I love my PTP cocker and would have loved to have another, but I figured I couldn't go without that kind of money for two years with minimal results again *wince* -
Wow... Better wait and buy at half price after its delivered. I am almost asking if it comes with a t-shirt as well...
EDIT: I just saw the results. What's wrong with Tracy!?!? Didn't she have enough with us? And now they do it again?? What a shame...Comment
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Wait, what's going on? More crap work from PTP?
Such a freaking shame. Their work used to be that of legends.Comment
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All blame should be put on PTP for using him again. Why they did is beyond me. He f'ed up the 2k??? Mag bodies. Doesn't surprise me one bit he screwed this up too.Originally posted by Drix View Post
Another excellent product PTP. OutFreakingStanding!!!Comment
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Yikes.... what a mess! Luckily they will replace all the bodies.
Btw, I have always been under the assumption that Proteam Products were never up to AGD specs. There is always something "different" about them. Check out this thread to see what people were doing in 2001 about their Micromags/eMicro's. Check out RobAGD and BlackVCG comments about it.
You are right, some people never learn....Comment
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I have never had a problem with anything other than the 2009 Micromag (and obviously the 2013 Autococker) and I have owned over 100 markers over the years, purchased both new and used.Originally posted by Bunny View PostYikes.... what a mess! Luckily they will replace all the bodies.
Btw, I have always been under the assumption that Proteam Products were never up to AGD specs. There is always something "different" about them. Check out this thread to see what people were doing in 2001 about their Micromags/eMicro's. Check out RobAGD and BlackVCG comments about it.
You are right, some people never learn....
It's funny that you mention "AGD specs" being that the Emag frame was a joint effort between AGD and PTP, and that the "AGD spec" for unibody markers by AGD Europe was inherently tied to the PTP design. That thread was from 2001; the Emag frame only came into being in late 2000 - troubleshooting and field testing is a process that almost never ends before a product is released.
You have there two examples of markers where the tolerances were off, and there are thousands of examples of their markers between 1992 and 2004 that worked fine. There are enough variances with any production marker that there will be bad units that make it past QC without being caught... And it seems like they tried their hardest to fix it, and made it right in the long run.
In the last few years, I can remember...
Angel A1 - Bolt snaps, launches out barrel (RECALLED)
Tippmann A5 - Back cap snaps, launches hammer (RECALLED)
Bob Long Vice - Bits of metal lodged in walls of lower tube (REPLACED)
Azodin KAOS - Bolt snaps, launches out back (NOT FIXED, NOT ACKNOWLEDGED)
BT SA-17 - Launches 12g cartridges in shooters face (RECALLED)
Vanguard Creed - Where do I start? (NOT FIXED, OPEN-ENDED DISCLAIMER ADDED)
Dangerous Power "anything" - Where do I start? (NOT FIXED, NOT ACKNOWLEDGED)
Machine Vapor - Where do I start? (NOT FIXED, OUT OF BUSINESS)Comment
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Frizzle Fry: The most interesting part of that thread wasn't the two examples, it was the fact that RobAGD and BlackVCG (AGD Techs from early 2000s) had so many issues with Micromags that they didn't even want to bother with them anymore. I could only imagine how many mags they worked on back in the day....
I'm not trying to troll PTP by any means; I actually really like a lot of their products. It just frustrates me that there are so many people willing to pre-order parts only to have them come out with crappy tolerances or not come out at all... The "people" who never learn are the customers, not the manufacture.
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What bonus sticker? I didn't get any! LOL
By the way, let me clarify something. I have several Micromags. Gen 1 (short fixed barrel), Gen 3, 2000 and a 2K9. I honestly never had a problem with any of them (even though I didn't really use the 2K9 but the valve fit all right). I also have several other accessories from them, be it barrels, trigger frames, expansion chambers etc. What bothers me so much is how they screwed up their own name. I don't think anyone should be blamed other than themselves, especially Tracy, who had such a childish reaction when people started complaining about the products they didn't receive for a couple years and, afterwards, how she never returned anyone's money for the problem they caused. Because of that, I will never buy anything new from them again. Not only it's not worth the price they charge, they also don't deserve my business any more. And that's my opinion, only.
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Seems like both a misdesign AND a manufacturing issue.
It's awesome that they used rails to attach the feed tube thingy. Picatinny would have been nicer, but whatevs.
They should have attached the feed neck via the exact same mechanism (and that's where the extra beefy Picatinny would be useful). The part could be threaded again, although really the whole idea of (threaded-)feednecks-as-structural-component just needs to go away. Maybe someone will figure it out in the next 30 years. Or not.
See also: SA-17, Empire Trracer, TM-7, TM-15, etc.
Bad design right in that area, and worse execution.
Missteps will happen; it's the response that counts. So now we get to see how PTP responds. Again. As if we needed another example."Accuracy by aiming."
Definitely not on the A-Team.Comment
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You guys are seriously making me worry about whether or not my completely untouched, unassembled MM 2k9 is going to work or not.... I should put some parts on it just to check it out...Comment
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Lol. Check it before you get too far into the project. Idk how many actually had problems, I got lost in that mammoth thread. The first thing is making sure the valve and bolt will fit in the body. Another was to make sure the bolt spring has enough space to move. IIRC, they opted for the 7000 series aluminum to preclude the need for a body washer (for the bolt spring to push against). Keeping that wall thickness seems to have tripped them up at least a few times.Originally posted by RehKal View PostComment
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And here I was thinking I was lucky to get in on the original sale of them. I was able to take someones place who had to give up their slot. The MM 2k9 has been in storage ever since due to my work related travelling... suppose I could stick my pneu frame and valve on there for testing...Comment
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I just want to nip this in the butt. The thread you linked to is about the MicroEmag and BlackVCG provided 1 example of an Micro RT valve that needed a different length pin.Originally posted by Bunny View PostYikes.... what a mess! Luckily they will replace all the bodies.
Btw, I have always been under the assumption that Proteam Products were never up to AGD specs. There is always something "different" about them. Check out this thread to see what people were doing in 2001 about their Micromags/eMicro's. Check out RobAGD and BlackVCG comments about it.
You are right, some people never learn....
I currently own 14 Micromags and have owned/ worked on countless more. The classic Micromags DO NOT HAVE TOLERANCE ISSUES. You can take any working AGD classic valve, drop it into any working classic PTP Micromag and have a working marker.
With that said, it's very sad to see the 2k9 and 2k13 projects going so awfully.Comment
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