any chance of new mags from AGD anytime?

[Patron God of Pirates]

If I were AGD looking at this thread there is no way I'm deciding to introduce new Mags.

AGD needs to sell it's product to Paintball Stores. Stores will then sell them to players. They are going to push the products that have the best margins and the most opportunity to up sell. An expensive mech with all the bells and whistles with horizontal cosmetic only upgrades is not going to make money for shops. Especially when it can't compete with the bps of an out of the box low end elctro. Keep in mind MAG buyers also have to cough up an extra $100+ for an HPA tank.

I can't remember the last time I walked into a store that had any kind of Mag on the wall.

[LoveMyMagMoreThanYou]

IIRC, it took them YEARS to finally get rid of the Y frames because they sold so poorly. There are several companies offering bodies, rails and frames already which is something that is usually handled by the aftermarket. Do Dye or Kee offer body kits or custom frames for their markers?

One area that I would strongly agree that updates could be done is in regards to colors. But then you get into what colors sell, which don't? And if you start anodizing the valves, you have to have matching bodies and what happens if people start ordering clown markers with red valves, purple bodies and green frames? So I get that aspect of it because if you make everything black, it all matches. And lets be honest, Mag are probably used more so in woodsball games than tourney, so black is probably a better choice for most.

My .02

Actually if they would sell in black and raw so that you could get it anodized yourself, I think that would be great. Plus, having raw parts on hand wouldn't create to much in overstock. You could always send them out to be anodized black if the black supply ran low.

Also, I would like to see an update in the efficiency of the valve. This is where the 'Mag is falling behind considerably. I know there is a drop in to do the job, but I would like to see a valve come out of the factory with better efficiency.

[Nobody]

There is no reasonably priced, modern Automag option out there. It's that simple. You speak of choice, but there is no choice.

You guys talk about "Ferraris" and "style" and "customization" and "high end" stuff to the complete exclusion of the everyday needs. You.don't.get.it.

I've only broached the subject of the *body*. There's the reg back, the rail, and the grip to look at as well.


After the pain of modifying a stainless body to my needs, yeah, I've considered just doing some sort of custom run. I know people who want something similar to what I made. My friend asked me for one, I straight up told him 'no'.

then what are you asking? what do you consider a modern Automag? what is your criteria for it? classics are running cheap at $100, but if you are looking for UMF type frames for the same price as a Intelliframe, then you're delusional. its the same with X valves. you might find them cheap for $150, but that's only cause people want to move them quick. i'm happy that they are keeping value. so many things loose value quick in paintball. spend $1200ish on a BRAND new gun and 6 months later you might get half that price, if people want the gun.

you mentioned that you don't like the looks of any of the aftermarket bodies, and i posed a question? you like the old steel bodies, but you are in the minority. other than a nostalgia look, i wouldn't want an old body.

being able to carry one barrel threading is a godsend to people that have multiple guns. cocker threading even though it sucks, everyone knows it sucks, is the standard. so moving to a better body IS an everyday move, it made life easier for all. especially when combined with a lever lock feedneck, AS WELL as getting the hopper closer to the body so that you bring down the center of gravity. sorry, i don't know what you are complaining about.

the rail you have options to get a better look, but because of design, there is only so much you can do. the same with the reg back. i don't see and won't see anyone coming out with a different reg, other than people snatching up old Air America tank regs and swapping them on to it. plus, the reg back is only esthetics since there has not been any change to the reg. so you complain about the looks, then site something you can't really change. what are you asking?

personally, i think you only beat the drum for the old bodies cause you hate the prices of what is out there. its hard to pony up 5 Benjamins for a Dallara or whatever else and it sucks. oh well, that's the market. just because you can't afford it, doesn't mean that everyone has to play on your level.

so show a pic of your body. you've talked about it enough. personally, if people like what you do to the body, i'd be a fool not to make them. if it is good, then you would have a niche in the market that no one is doing.

[GoatBoy]

There is no reasonably priced, modern Automag option out there. It's that simple. You speak of choice, but there is no choice.

You guys talk about "Ferraris" and "style" and "customization" and "high end" stuff to the complete exclusion of the everyday needs. You.don't.get.it.

I've only broached the subject of the *body*. There's the reg back, the rail, and the grip to look at as well.


After the pain of modifying a stainless body to my needs, yeah, I've considered just doing some sort of custom run. I know people who want something similar to what I made. My friend asked me for one, I straight up told him 'no'.

[Jaccen]

In my pipe dream land, I envision a sear and frame setup similar to flatliner's Eddy. ie. a sear that is activated by a plunger/solenoid pushing up rather than back and a frame that hosts it. It would retain the modularity of the 'mag while adding some new options.

I, briefly, held hopes that when Simon left Kee he was buying out/reuniting with AGD. That would have been a combo that I would gladly throw all of my disposable income at.

An AGD spec pneumag would be cool. Especially after the success the eNMey has had.

The chances of any of this? Slim. But one can dream.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Considering an X valve retails for about $250 that would be a really tough task.

Yeah, it's a tuffy. They would have to make enough to get the price down. Then surround it with throw away parts. Sell it on it's potential for customization. That gives stores something to up sell and customers that will come back. Nobody wants to sell something then never see the customer again because it's "perfect" out of the box

[Bunny]

Just had a really odd thought, but has anyone ever thought about getting AO "business cards" printed up? They are dirt cheap these days and you could carry a handful around with you when playing. If someone comes up and asks you about your marker, you could talk to them briefly and hand them a snazzy card with the AO address on it. People have bad memories sometimes and simply telling them the info can be really overwhelming. Handing them a card with some pics of nice Mags and the AO web address might get them to stop by and get hooked.

Just a thought. Stupid one maybe, but a thought.

I really like that idea. Since AGD has a few dollars left over from the donation/upgrade, maybe we could use the cash for some business cards to generate new members. Once I finish up my idea for the CMS I may address this concept

[OPBN]

Get them with anything with an X-Valve for under 300 retail and the sky is the limit.

Considering an X valve retails for about $250 that would be a really tough task.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Part of the problem I think is the idea that bringing back classic valves and bodies would instantly create a cheaper entry level marker. I would wager that building new classic valves wouldn't necassarily be that much cheaper. If someone wants an entry level Mag, buy used. When people want a Vette, but can't afford a new one, they buy a used older model. It's the way things work.

I think the point of an entry level mag would be to bring new players into the fold. The Strength of the Automag used to be its durability and reliability. While that is still a strength, it's best feature imho is something that used to be it's greatest weakness; customization.

Get them with anything with an X-Valve for under 300 retail and the sky is the limit.

[OPBN]

Part of the problem I think is the idea that bringing back classic valves and bodies would instantly create a cheaper entry level marker. I would wager that building new classic valves wouldn't necassarily be that much cheaper. If someone wants an entry level Mag, buy used. When people want a Vette, but can't afford a new one, they buy a used older model. It's the way things work.

[Cokrkilr]

I'm with rehkal, back in the day I spent over $250 for my classic, by the time i was done with 2-3 different frames, hyperframe, barrels, etc... I was up in the dm13 price range by today's standards. I played in probably 20-25 local tournaments with and without the hyper, either way, it was heavy, reliable, and one of the most accurate guns out on the field.

I personally wouldn't care if agd made another mag or not. I've got mine, I still find the parts I need, and it still turns heads every time I pull it out of the bag.

Id rather have my mag that maybe (a big maybe) 10 people in the world have in the exact configuration I have, than have a flood of mags out that look the same and generic but they are "new".

And as far as fancy stuff, get a one off made. Like everyone else is saying, if it were cost effective it would have been done already and there would still be stock on someones shelves... oh wait, agd still has purple ule bodies from 2000 on the shelf, that should say something right there

[Nobody]

See, the monkeys are already hard at work on the advertising problem! Bananas for everyone!

I think all these sluggo based bodies are useless. All they do is pretty up your gun at the expense of your pocketbook, and worse, they are a waste of time. Whoever is designing these things is wasting their considerable design capability on aesthetic crap when they could be designing something actually functional.

I say just go back to the steel tube. The classic body is just fine with some minor modifications.

so you'd rather stifle the artist aspects of machinists who made the Chord, Dallara, the X mag, the SFL, Ripper, IT and all those aftermarket bodies? sure, just performance is nice, but sometimes people want to turn heads. would you buy a Ferrari that looked like a Honda Element? so a Chrysler K car is just as good as a Jaguar E type?

the modular breech on an Xmag allows you to switch from a warp feed to a vert feed. its nice to have when you want to go from a hose to a pose. hell, a smaller vert feed with a smaller hopper brings the mobility up on the gun so that you don't have this huge long brick that you are trying to move around. you are able to bring the center of gravity of the gun towards your hand and not above it. plus, all the steel adds up. guns that weigh less make for a more mobile person. why do you think that the stainless barrel fad is gone?

but the aftermarket bodies are personality. look at even the Eclipse body kits. they gave the person the option to personalize their gun. no one want to have the same thing that the person next to them has. its functional, but i'd take a vert feed clamping feed next over a powerfeed any day. i hated the elbows but it was a necessity. it also eliminates a break point. the elbow will fail before the body or the hopper.

No magic business man is going to fly in and pay to move the forum to new hosting either.

Yet somehow it happened.

If there's no money left in paintball, then how valuable is the AGD IP? How about just the classic, which you seem to assign no value to?

hate to tell you, my classic i bought in 1999. its my mud gun, its my anvil. put 30+ cases through it and it has yet to let me down. put some oil in it about a year ago to chase a small leak and that's it. changed everything but the rail and the valve and its a keeper. so i don't have anything against classics, except that they are dirt cheap, you can pick up an ex-rental for $100 and though its solid gun, its still weighs a ton, especially with the powerfeed bodies.

ummm, we the people paid the money to have the forum moved. TK didn't care, but listened to the people. he moved things around, but it wasn't his choice, it isn't his doing about redoing the forum, these are the people posting. also, TK himself said that there is no money in paintball. that's why he left AGD. hell, it will be worth talking to him at Tunaball and see what he says, if he does show up.

IPs couldn't tell you how much they are worth. don't care, i don't deal in them. but regardless of the item, an object is only worth what someone is willing to pay. to those on AGD, its worth a lot. to the people who post here, who do business only here. the rest of the world could care less.

[RehKal]

Fall? What fall?

Mags were -never- cheap and they still aren't. Nor should they be. They aren't some off the shelf, generic knock off marker produced by the thousands. They are one-off, highly customizable pieces of art and are reflected as such by their price tag. And honestly, they are a sight cheaper than some of the $1200 electros out there that come out with a new model every year where they tweak... the milling... or the color...

Remember back in the day of the classic automag? When you bought one, it was a grip, valve and body. No barrel, everything else was added and customized.. it wasn't until later that they came with everything else. ;P

[brokeass_baller]

I get what he's saying. He isn't talking about beauty, he's talking cost only. He's saying something basic based around the classic valve could compete in todays market with similar mechs (Tippmanns) and probably lower-end electros. ULE bodies are apparently more expensive to produce than soldering a steel tube to another steel tube, then throwing in an insert with cocker threads and a normal detent.

That said, i think it's really sad we're taking about how to make a mag compete with the Tippmann price range. Automags were once held leagues above any Tippmann maker. It's sad to realize their fall.

[OPBN]

Maybe you should take lead on this. I'm sure there's a massive market out there for inexpensive SS bodies for Automags.