any chance of new mags from AGD anytime?

[GoatBoy]

There are TONS of classic bodies out there. Why would anyone need to make more? So let's take one and add an AC adapter for $40. Say we lucked out and found a CF SS one and only paid $45 for it. We're now up to $85. We cut the feednecks down and add an ego feedneck for another $25. Now we are up to $110. For an extra $15 I could have a ULE body already AC threaded, so no adapter to get stuck, nice detent, and threaded for a clamping feedneck. And it weighs probably 1/2 of what the SS does. How does that make sense?

That is *exactly* correct. It makes no sense to go that route. Piecing it together like that absolutely makes it more expensive.

So how much do you think it costs to make an Empire Trracer body?

[OPBN]

There are TONS of classic bodies out there. Why would anyone need to make more? So let's take one and add an AC adapter for $40. Say we lucked out and found a CF SS one and only paid $45 for it. We're now up to $85. We cut the feednecks down and add an ego feedneck for another $25. Now we are up to $110. For an extra $15 I could have a ULE body already AC threaded, so no adapter to get stuck, nice detent, and threaded for a clamping feedneck. And it weighs probably 1/2 of what the SS does. How does that make sense?

[GoatBoy]

I'm sorry but if you are really arguing that AGD or others should have pursued development of the ultimate SS body rather than the ULE, there's no reasoning with you. Troll on.

No, I'm not saying that. You clearly do not understand what I am saying.

You guys all talk big about having choice. But there is no choice for a less expensive automag body.

That's great that you can buy all the stupidly expensive bodies that you want, but where does the choice exist for a reasonable, basic, inexpensive body that literally isn't from the 90's? I'm not talking about pursuing the ultimate -- I'm talking about the exact opposite. Pursuing something REASONABLE.

WHERE IS THIS CHOICE YOU SPEAK OF?

[OPBN]

I'm sorry but if you are really arguing that AGD or others should have pursued development of the ultimate SS body rather than the ULE, there's no reasoning with you. Troll on.

[RT Lover]

See, the monkeys are already hard at work on the advertising problem! Bananas for everyone!

I think all these sluggo based bodies are useless. All they do is pretty up your gun at the expense of your pocketbook, and worse, they are a waste of time. Whoever is designing these things is wasting their considerable design capability on aesthetic crap when they could be designing something actually functional.

dude input is great but it is far out there, isnt the best thing about a mag is the options? so u dont have anything nice? big tv, siding on your house, cd player smart phone? all really fancy items u dont need, i know(assume all others) what i put into my marker is my own business. Im a guy anything with boobs and flames i want. anyway if i want to spend it isnt my choice? what some dealers throw out there is just wicked... and it has a price, if u r good with a ss body im cool with it :rofl:

[GoatBoy]

Considering the introduction of the ULE not only decreased the weight, it also allowed for the use of real detents, clamping feednecks, and cocker threaded barrels I would consider it a substantial performance increase over the SS bodies that required using elbows. In regards to price, the last rendition of SS bidies that came with clamping feednecks were about $120, not much less than what ULEs cost. Having the ability to use Cocker threaded barrels alone is worth the price of a ULE.

Funny, I've got a stainless body right here that has a clamping feedneck without an extra elbow, Spyder/Ego detentes, and takes cocker threaded barrels.

Given the complexity of producing the ULE's, I have to wonder if making the stainless bodies is actually easier and cheaper, if you're smart about it. I mean it's great that they do such a nice welding job on those feed necks... but it's also unnecessary. I could be wrong here and maybe they could just revamp the ULE body and not do such complicated things, but the ol' stainless tube seems pretty easy.

And if you don't like aesthetically pleasing parts... Don't buy them, but saying that people are wasting their time and talents making them is a bit harsh. Actually pretty douchey really.

It's the truth. Having expensive upgrades available is nice as an option, but there are some basic things that need tending to first.

[OPBN]

Considering the introduction of the ULE not only decreased the weight, it also allowed for the use of real detents, clamping feednecks, and cocker threaded barrels I would consider it a substantial performance increase over the SS bodies that required using elbows. In regards to price, the last rendition of SS bidies that came with clamping feednecks were about $120, not much less than what ULEs cost. Having the ability to use Cocker threaded barrels alone is worth the price of a ULE.

And if you don't like aesthetically pleasing parts... Don't buy them, but saying that people are wasting their time and talents making them is a bit harsh. Actually pretty douchey really.

[GoatBoy]

See, the monkeys are already hard at work on the advertising problem! Bananas for everyone!

I think all these sluggo based bodies are useless. All they do is pretty up your gun at the expense of your pocketbook, and worse, they are a waste of time. Whoever is designing these things is wasting their considerable design capability on aesthetic crap when they could be designing something actually functional.

I say just go back to the steel tube. The classic body is just fine with some minor modifications.

suffice to say, no magic business man is going to fly in and push this company forward. as much as we all like TK, he doesn't care about AGD anymore as he has said that "there is no money in paintball". how long did it take to get the new AGD? has the financials been released so we know where our money went to? even though there is want and need for new parts other than the X-valves, RT Pros(do we really need a rehash of a classic?), what would people actually want to do?

No magic business man is going to fly in and pay to move the forum to new hosting either.

Yet somehow it happened.

If there's no money left in paintball, then how valuable is the AGD IP? How about just the classic, which you seem to assign no value to?

[Nobody]

suffice to say, no magic business man is going to fly in and push this company forward. as much as we all like TK, he doesn't care about AGD anymore as he has said that "there is no money in paintball". how long did it take to get the new AGD? has the financials been released so we know where our money went to? even though there is want and need for new parts other than the X-valves, RT Pros(do we really need a rehash of a classic?), what would people actually want to do?

pump kits will never come. as i remember it, the AGD pump kits sat for years and was a flop. its when pump play has become more prevalent AFTER the kits where sold that there is a clamor for them. i really think its more of the fact that the price for used is still high, that people want new so that the price will come down.

Emag, agian won't happen. Emags never flew off the shelves to begin with. you will always have people talking about them you either sight the design of it not progressing(same layout-though in retrospect i feel that the Mag is the Porsche 911 of the paintball world), or that its entirely too heavy. the cost of electronics is the biggest factor against them. you either need a total redesign of the system(different noids and such) or take in an existing board to help power it.

the warp feed was a flop. not that you need people in tourneys to use it, but there is always that one guy that you see with it, but yet it never catches on. besides, with modern forcefeed, you don't need the extra weight of it.

so tell me that i'm wrong and show me where my thoughts can be changed for the better and prove me wrong. i love AGD and my Mag, but this is a dead issue. the life support is there, but it won't pay for the transplants.

[AGDRetro]

The Mag could greatly benefit from a reboot. The X-Valve base is just fine, but the parts around it could use an update. Some of these parts people will say aren't worth including or updating because the Mag toters will just replace them, but the question I ask is - "with what?". Your options for "upgraded" or replacement parts is not getting any bigger. The task for AGD would be to make the parts much like the valves in their guns - not worth replacing! Make a lever clamping feedneck that is low profile, STURDY (but not chunky) and easily adjustable. It is not like the market is flooded with tons of new, worthwhile Angel feednecks. You make this one part right and nobody would want to replace it! How about a new rail with the vertical ASA integrated. I don't mean held on there by a screw, but actually a part of the rail!

I would dump a huge chunk of change on AGD if they'd revisit the Classic RT with a couple twists. Give it a body that resembled the X-Mag, run the air thru the rail and update the valve to accept the ULE trigger. Update the trigger frame by enlarging the trigger guard area and give it an integrated rail for the on/off ASA. And for the love of God please license one of RPG's triggers!

As for marketing, I'm not sure how much the "pro" teams are worth, or even magazines like APG or sites like PBN. AO's members and word of mouth at the field are going to be your best bet, the business cards are a great idea. Of course all of this means nothing if AGD won't produce anything new...

Nobody wants to invest in a company that seems to be sitting still.

[RT Lover]

As in interesting aside, when I was asking once about Dallara numbers etc. it was mentioned that one of the reasons that the Dallara bodies were soooo freaking expensive was due to the cost of the factory body slugs. From what I got out of the conversation, rather than offering the slugs at a decent price, they were sold at a premium that made it difficult for anyone to buy a bunch of them and make reasonably priced custom bodies. In a way it sounds like custom bodies were somewhat discouraged rather than encouraged.

Correct me if I undersood it incorrectly.

And it is still my opinion that aftermarket bodies should be exactly that, aftermarket. Focus on what you do and do it well rather than venturing off into custom work.

What Dave z told me is that they had the slugs made from pouring hot metal in a form or what ever. he said something like if they did a big run like 200-300 they could do it. we r talking a good 7 years though. but they did the ule and tack 1 bodies. i guess as long as they advertise or something they would c more $. I have wanted to make a slug square instead of round... more meat but dont tell XMT or luke she is pissed about the new parts lol

i dont think there is a after market body that sucks.... outside of ptp, thats just me

[Patron God of Pirates]

There are so many companies holding so many different (often sketchy) patents it's hard for any company to make anything other than a cookie cutter spooly. Forgive me if my facts are wrong or out of date but just some I can think of:

WDP: Frames forward of 86 degrees
PTP: Pnuematic assisted triggers
Smart Parts: Triggers(?anything that activates the firing of a paintball)
AGD: on/off

I'm not clear on the details of any of that but IIRC that is the basic reason why we rely mostly on small runs of custom made stuff.

Other than that for Mags to make a comeback we would need to see a shift away from batteries and circuit boards. In an unlimited BPS mech semi-only format Mags would own. It would take some high profile marketing. Reaching out to stores, fields, and players. An all mech/mag team winning a major event would be nice. The trick is in creating mechanical=skillful / batteries=entry level association.

For some reason that has always been the way I thought. I got rid of both of my e-mags for that reason. I would love to see a high capacity pneumatic loader. I digress.

The Mag I'd like to see back in the stores is an entry level mag with an X-Valve and cheep-o everything else. Then posters with a bunch of Mags from the MOTM winners thread. Put some printed materials in the box with lots of pictures of what a Mag can be.

[OPBN]

If someone puts the business cards together, I'll buy in on it to give out to folks that say (what's that your shooting):-) :-) just let me know

I suck at design etc, so its not something that I will undertake, but would be willing to pay for postage or whatever to take 10-15 of them to keep on me when I play.

[dodge3500]

If someone puts the business cards together, I'll buy in on it to give out to folks that say (what's that your shooting):-) :-) just let me know

[GoatBoy]

I'm going to try to keep this short.

even by your own words, they wonder about your gun, but they haven't done anything about it. we all have people come up to us wondering if our mags are ions or something else. why is that? cause people her about those other guns, and not mags.

This is where the pain starts setting in. People ask about my mag, and if they want one like mine, I just have to tell them... they can't.

They can't go buy a new classic mag, and certainly not one in my configuration. You want a new mag, you have to go buy the RTPro, which quite frankly is priced-to-fail.

you can have the best product in the world, but if no one knows about it, it doesn't matter how much you want to wish things to change. they won't.

The product A) Not being available at all, and/or B) Only available in a form that is completely uncompetitive, is a bigger problem than advertising. Many orders of magnitude bigger. You can give a monkey a jersey and pay him in bananas to do your advertising. The design and manufacturing ... not so much.