Brasseagle really suing Halo

[shartley]

<--- tossing a noodle at Hasty8

QUIT IT!!!!!

(But still a great thread!)

[steveg]

At the risk of dragging this thread back on topic
And in reference to manike's frequent comment on
the nonsense that gets patented as an original idea, how
did VL/BE patent a photocell or ever its application?

there is no question that the viewloader is an original
idea and if Odyssey had simply copied it than BE would
have every right to protect their idea

but they did not, the halo is also an original idea that
shares nothing but the function of holding and feeding
paintballs on demand

begin discussion now

[Hasty8]

Steve.

BE never patented the photocell.

But the did patent it's use in this particular manner.

That manes that anyone else can use the photocell (provided that it is public domain) but they cannot use it in that way.

However, there is legal manuvering room here.

As I posted earlier there are three major discrepencies between the HALO and the revvy type loaders that I can see and I'll need to examine the BE patent's wordin a bit more carefully before I put any stock in these assumpotion but here is my list:

1: The Revvy type loaders specifically look for a lack of a paintball to start the motor where the HALO looks for the presence of a ball to stop the motor.

2: The Revvy types require a straight feed tube whereas the HALo uses a bent feed tube.

3: The Revvys use on optical triggering mechanism whereas the HALO uses an electormechanical triggering system. A switch further down the tube completments the ir switch.

A fourth argumentative point is that the Revvy type loaders merely attempt to clear a blockage inside the storage compartment while the HALO seeks to activly force feed the balls down the feed tube (Yes, I know it is not an active ssytem, please do not let us go there again).

In my experience these differences alone should be sufficient to have the case rapidly dismissed, thereby preventing BE from over whelming Odyssey with an financially exhausting litigation.

And thanks for dragging us back ont rack here Steve

(Shartley insurance: While I stand by these words I do not at this time attest to their truth and/or validity and reserve the right to, at any time, change my meaning by later providing a more clear, concise, accurate and factual definition of these aforementioned words. )

[ShinyGuy]

It sounds to me as though BE patent is trying to cover the concept of useing a photocell to trigger a loading mechinism. While they may have the first system like this for paintball I see no funtional difference between a revy and industrial part loading systems (don't know when these were invented but I've seen some at least 25 years old). I assume these systems are patented in which case BE should reference them (which they don't) or the idea of feeding based on a photocell is considered "obvious".

[Doobie]

I agree with the early post. This has nothing to do with patent infringement or intellectual property. It has everything to do with BE trying to squeeze capital out of Odyssey in the hope they will go broke defending the lawsuit. I don't think anyone at BE thinks they can win it. They are just banking on getting it into court. Maybe there is a good patent lawer out there who can see what is happening, plays paintball, and will defend the HALO guys for free! That would help ruin BE's plan. Court fees would still hurt though. All in all, I wish the Odyssey guys well and want everyone to know that I like my HALO and any questions I have had were answered quickly. They even sent me a new lid IN CASE I break my current one. Lets see BE even respond to an E-mail personally.
Good Luck Odyssey!

[billmi]

Originally posted by Spaceman613
heres an interesting thought. Could BE sue for intellectual property? Since the guys that designed the egg went on to design the halo, couldnt BE say they designed the halo on BE time and therefore belongs to BE??? I know my company has certain clauses in this area.

The Egg was designed by Brass Eagle employees after Brass Eagle bought the Viewloader product rights and brand name from CM Support.

One of the partners in Odyssey Paintball (the company that makes the HALO) was a CM Support employee up until the time that Brass Eagle bought the Viewloader line.

No Odyssey employees were involved in the design of the eVLution (Egg) loader, on Brass Eagle's time or otherwise.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[Bad Dave]

Someone mentioned an AGD lawsuit, it may have been against european paintball supplies who made and sold mag clones, nearly exact copies but with aluminium bodies and frames.

[Spaceman613]

Thanks for clearing it up Bill... Didn't know what the status of employment was with all the guys in question.

Good to know for future reference...

btw, the cocker you sold me at the BBT sale in Sept...
I love it, thanks (it was the cole cocker)

[billmi]

Originally posted by Spaceman613
btw, the cocker you sold me at the BBT sale in Sept...
I love it, thanks (it was the cole cocker)

Sweet. Wat that the one with the arros in the side and that brown/yellow over-ripe bananna color scheme? I like the way Cole does his P-Blocks, because of how they ramp together rather than hit corners together and bind like some do.

We just confirmed last weekend that we'll be going up for the PigRoast and sale again this year We were going to bail because August is so busy, but Ren talked us into it - it's always a fun party in the store weekend. This year we are probably going to only roast one pig, and then also do turkeys and shishkebab beef or something similar, for more variety of meats.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[Webmaster]

IIRC - there was an AGD clone in europe - instead of using lawyer I believe they just lowered the price on mags so far (loosing money on it) and drove the guy out of business.

Also - I emailed Albert Schilling and I got this reply:

HI Steve,

Things have been going pretty crazy around here. [personal stuff deleted] As for the BE thing, it's no biggie. It's all public record so I don't have any problem talking about it. It's their opinion that we are willfully infringing on their loader technology, and it's our opinion along with 2 independent patent attorneys that reviewed the patents before we ever went into production that it isn't. Therefore, we feel quite confident that we will win the court case and be fully exonerated. Obviously IP cases are the type that don't get settled overnight, so this could take as much as 4 or 5 years to come to a conclusion. In the mean time, we'll continue on business as usual.

Albert

[DarkRipper]

I buy Pre-BE revs when possible. I don't buy BE.

FWIW

DR

[CRySyS]

Everyone is comparing the HALO to the revy but your forgetting that BE also own the Evlution patent. The original revy patent covers the eye and the egg patent is a similar design to the HALO. Also the egg was patented by CM support before being bought by BE IIRC. All things considered the eye does work differently and the impeller design if patented by either doesn't stand since prior art exists. (Namely tippmanns star feed, they may actually hold the patent for that, I'm not sure.) I wish Odysee the best of luck, they have a great product and it would be a shame to see them run to the ground by a stupid lawsuit.

[ZyperioN]

Hey guys look at this one!!!!

dude this is funny as hell, look at this patent by brass eagle.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...AND&d=ft00&s1='Brass+eagle'&s2='Brass+Eagle'&OS="Brass+eagle"+AND+"Brass+Eagle"&RS="Brass+eagle"+AND+"Brass+Eagle"

It basically says they own the right to sup'air and speedball. Ahahahhahahhaha!! They are so gay, it makes our sport look bad. A company can own the right to the , how pathetic is that.

[Creative Mayhem]

Halo vs VL

Look, I don't own a halo I've never used one, but I do believe that VL has gone down the tubes since the purchase by BE. I think this is just thier way of damaging other companies and recouping there own loses after everyone found a better system than the one they screwed up. Their hoppers are too thin the break after one hit, I have seen this happen personally. I own an old VL2000 Shredder It's a heck of a lot thickerit won't break and it probably never will. Like I said, I don't own one but I do know from what I've read that the halo is superior. My view may be tainted by what I've seen in my years of playing and ownership, but I do believe they are just trying to get back at those doing better than them.

This is just my .02 though.

Creative Mayhem

[Snooky]

I'm in favor of BE on this one. If they have violated the patent than halo should be brought down. Even if BE is doing this only to make them going belly up i would think its a good plan for them. i mean why compete when u can conquer. its just good buisness.