since the cockers guys getting some love maybe we can too?

[OneSelfLost]

I'd love to see another body come out with interchangeable breaches like the Xmag or the newer micro.

[keiko_819]

A unibody am/mm length with an optional adapter to add emag lowers like the ptp body? And then everyone can choose their own everything else

[dodge3500]

Are those people the original owners, or people that might have found it second hand or even have traded guns and maybe cash? Hell, i have a 99 Eclipse LED Angel, which was a $1500 gun, back in the day or even my Ego6. Does that count?

But BigEvil's state is more that you will sell more $400 dollar guns than guns that cost 4 figures. Compare 10 years ago to today. Back then you had yearly gun releases, now their are spread out between the line of guns. Planet Eclipse, MacDev, even Empire.

I never thought to ask if they purchased their lv1,geo3.5 or vanquish new but somebody had to.I can believe the used market is strong for sure just look at PbNation a crap ton of sweet used electro's there.

[1985phenom]

I realize this is digressing a bit but I have followed the used market on FB in the hopes if scoring a discarded mag (scored a classic valve pneu for 125$ shipped)...

...people are already selling their Mini GS's. People buy and sell new guns too fast at a loss.

[BigEvil]

The last gun I paid over $1k for was my Xmag and that was new from AGD in 2003. I have a bunch of $1k+ guns, I NEVER paid anywhere near retail for them. It's insane when you can buy the same gun used a year later for 1/2 the price. Some people do buy them new, but more people buy lower to mid end guns new. The Ion changed the world boys.

[OPBN]

Since we're all clarifying...lol. I would like to clarify that I was talking about a valveless marker for under $1k. Buyers would supply bottomlines, feednecks, fittings, etc. Essentially I am talking about a custom designed package that would include a body/rail/unibody, frame, and foregrip (maybe a barrel) All designed together and limited in production to say 25 markers and then the molds are broken. The buyers supply whatever else they want to send off for anodizing match.

[SN toter]

Well, Luke - you've got me excited. Looking fw to seeing what you have up your sleeve.

[Laku]

Guys, bodies are my next big project. I have ideas of the route I want to go but nothing is set in stone until the chips start flying. I'm prototyping my current project right now, when it's done I will start the body project. I hope to start the design phase within about a month. I have a lot of concerns about the project and whether or not the support will be there when the time comes. People generally don't want something new, they want repeats of old parts, SFL, xmag or a emag, karta mag, aluminum minimag and RT bodies or the ripper style bodies, none of which is a direction I plan on going. Once I have my slug designs down (Not AGD slugs, I'm doing something different) there will be many possibilities. This will happen and much sooner than later.

Sounds good. I'm actually more interested of new types of bodies, depending of course wether I like the aesthetics or not.

[knownothingmags]

I realize this is digressing a bit but I have followed the used market on FB in the hopes if scoring a discarded mag (scored a classic valve pneu for 125$ shipped)...

...people are already selling their Mini GS's. People buy and sell new guns too fast at a loss.

well when its mom and dads money

[WholemealDrop]

a grand is quite a chunk of money for an incomplete marker. End user would end up dropping a couple hundred more to finish it off.

[vintage]

$1000.00 is a chunk regardless of what your buying. for that much i can buy 2 nice little Turkish made o/u shotguns from Academy and have some left over for ammo. i just bought a new Rock Island 1911 in 38 super for $355.00. as much as i would like to see a new mag i can't justify spending any where near that much on a new paintball gun.

as you can see paintball is not my only hobby.

[Laku]

as much as i would like to see a new mag i can't justify spending any where near that much on a new paintball gun.

But maybe it is also a beautiful piece of metal art. 1000$ wouldn't be that much from art.

[WholemealDrop]

Well for $1k I'd expect a complete and usable product. Yes there are other things that you can get of quality make for less. For example your 1911 for $355, I suspect it shoots well, had at least 1 mag, complete to the point of usability. What if you had to spend another $100-200 in order to use that 1911 (not including ammo), would you still want to buy it? When you end up spending that much money I'd expect it to be a complete usable product. Little things that boil down to personal preference such as barrel choice or type of ASA/rail combo I could let slide seeing as everyone has their own opinion and tastes in that regard. But for the most part I shouldn't have to put in almost half the value of the base product in order to use it. And to counteract an opposing argument: I should have to cannibalize another marker to make another work or use parts you already have since not everyone keeps a spare X-Valve laying around just in case.

Also I'm not a machinist or have the knowledge how that business works but as others have stated, still confused as to why cocker parts (bodies, frames, blocks, etc.) are so much cheaper in comparison to mag parts. Some did state that mag bodies need a concentric bore through them where cockers don't but that didn't make sense to me either since the top tube needs to be straight for the bolt and at least half the bottom tube needs to be straight to align the hammer and valve. $200+ mag frames without grips or ano stun me when cocker frames with internals and grips top out at $200! I understand that we can't expect someone to re-engineer the valve system to produce them when AGD already does a good job at that but I don't see how we couldn't part a custom gun build with AGD to supply the valve system. They should like it for increased exposure for mags which could lead to them more sales.

[Nobody]

Well for $1k I'd expect a complete and usable product. Yes there are other things that you can get of quality make for less. For example your 1911 for $355, I suspect it shoots well, had at least 1 mag, complete to the point of usability. What if you had to spend another $100-200 in order to use that 1911 (not including ammo), would you still want to buy it? When you end up spending that much money I'd expect it to be a complete usable product. Little things that boil down to personal preference such as barrel choice or type of ASA/rail combo I could let slide seeing as everyone has their own opinion and tastes in that regard. But for the most part I shouldn't have to put in almost half the value of the base product in order to use it. And to counteract an opposing argument: I should have to cannibalize another marker to make another work or use parts you already have since not everyone keeps a spare X-Valve laying around just in case.

Also I'm not a machinist or have the knowledge how that business works but as others have stated, still confused as to why cocker parts (bodies, frames, blocks, etc.) are so much cheaper in comparison to mag parts. Some did state that mag bodies need a concentric bore through them where cockers don't but that didn't make sense to me either since the top tube needs to be straight for the bolt and at least half the bottom tube needs to be straight to align the hammer and valve. $200+ mag frames without grips or ano stun me when cocker frames with internals and grips top out at $200! I understand that we can't expect someone to re-engineer the valve system to produce them when AGD already does a good job at that but I don't see how we couldn't part a custom gun build with AGD to supply the valve system. They should like it for increased exposure for mags which could lead to them more sales.

These are what i think those reasons are:
1) you can get predrilled extrusions.
2) the tolerances for a mag is much higher than a cocker
3) there are a hell of a lot more aftermarket parts for cockers than mags. Whether they are sears, or valves or hammers or bolts. You can build a cocker strickly through used/secondary sources. You can't with mags.
4) the ancillaries that most designers need to fit into frame takes time and effort. Because people will put in pneumatics, you then have to incorporate the brackets and mounting points. Cocker frames do not have this.
5) the value of parts. The cost of a new Xvalve from AGD is about $250. You can get new valve train(valve and hammer set), HPR, frame(complete) & bolt.
6) cause quality costs more...

[cougar20th]

Lets see if I can explain this on a way I think Nobody would do. But try not to get myself banned.

Automag: Think of a 18 year old Virgin, Nice, tight & everything were it belongs place, works perfectly with some lube.
Autococker: Think of a career Porn star after her 10th 100 person gangbang, Loose, sloppy everything out of place, will work good with or without lube for awhile.

That is how the tolerances between the 2 compare. A autococker by default has way more allowance for tolerances to be off and still work. This is because everything fits losesly and seperatly. A mag valve on the other hand has everything toleranced tight enough that the bodys have to match.