since the cockers guys getting some love maybe we can too?

[dodge3500]

Lets see if I can explain this on a way I think Nobody would do. But try not to get myself banned.

Automag: Think of a 18 year old Virgin, Nice, tight & everything were it belongs place, works perfectly with some lube.
Autococker: Think of a career Porn star after her 10th 100 person gangbang, Loose, sloppy everything out of place, will work good with or without lube for awhile.

That is how the tolerances between the 2 compare. A autococker by default has way more allowance for tolerances to be off and still work. This is because everything fits losesly and seperatly. A mag valve on the other hand has everything toleranced tight enough that the bodys have to match.

I've been laughing so hard I gave myself a headache.
Great analogy.

[cockerpunk]

Lets see if I can explain this on a way I think Nobody would do. But try not to get myself banned.

Automag: Think of a 18 year old Virgin, Nice, tight & everything were it belongs place, works perfectly with some lube.
Autococker: Think of a career Porn star after her 10th 100 person gangbang, Loose, sloppy everything out of place, will work good with or without lube for awhile.

That is how the tolerances between the 2 compare. A autococker by default has way more allowance for tolerances to be off and still work. This is because everything fits losesly and seperatly. A mag valve on the other hand has everything toleranced tight enough that the bodys have to match.

ill take several of both please!

[ScottyBeans]

Lets see if I can explain this on a way I think Nobody would do. But try not to get myself banned.

Automag: Think of a 18 year old Virgin, Nice, tight & everything were it belongs place, works perfectly with some lube.
Autococker: Think of a career Porn star after her 10th 100 person gangbang, Loose, sloppy everything out of place, will work good with or without lube for awhile.

That is how the tolerances between the 2 compare. A autococker by default has way more allowance for tolerances to be off and still work. This is because everything fits losesly and seperatly. A mag valve on the other hand has everything toleranced tight enough that the bodys have to match.

.....nice

[Nobody]

Lets see if I can explain this on a way I think Nobody would do. But try not to get myself banned.

Automag: Think of a 18 year old Virgin, Nice, tight & everything were it belongs place, works perfectly with some lube.
Autococker: Think of a career Porn star after her 10th 100 person gangbang, Loose, sloppy everything out of place, will work good with or without lube for awhile.

That is how the tolerances between the 2 compare. A autococker by default has way more allowance for tolerances to be off and still work. This is because everything fits losesly and seperatly. A mag valve on the other hand has everything toleranced tight enough that the bodys have to match.

I am touched...
:youtheman:

[zondo]

Lets see if I can explain this on a way I think Nobody would do. But try not to get myself banned.

Automag: Think of a 18 year old Virgin, Nice, tight & everything were it belongs place, works perfectly with some lube.
Autococker: Think of a career Porn star after her 10th 100 person gangbang, Loose, sloppy everything out of place, will work good with or without lube for awhile.

That is how the tolerances between the 2 compare. A autococker by default has way more allowance for tolerances to be off and still work. This is because everything fits losesly and seperatly. A mag valve on the other hand has everything toleranced tight enough that the bodys have to match.

I think every man now completely understands the situation. Truly quotable for any argument. Is there a bumper sticker in the future? I foresee memes for this.

[p8ntbal4me]

Im going to chime in here and offer my 2 cents:

If you do this project,.... an electronic one,.... you need to design a new board.

By that: I mean you need to scrap the design from AGD and do something new, updated, and cost effective.

--------------------------

I am NOT saying it needs to be OLED or anything. But thing it through,.................... if you are designing a new product, you dont put old product inside to run it.

My software AND circuit are backwards compatable. Meaning it will fire any solenoid from 5-30 volts.

My suggestion for the project leader is to get rid of the AGD solenoid and board. Go with something new.

If not,..... making a new batch of Reflex Paintball Customs E/X-Mag boards to support this design would be an up front cost of $4-5k

The lead time would be short though,... measured in months,.. not years

[OPBN]

If you don't mind me asking, what is the component cost per board?

[barkingspider]

Just more of FYI if some didn't' catch the thread but there was talk with Luke about making a economical grip frame that accepts a cheap and easy to find supply of boards from Spyder. He posed three options from very cost effect to more complex, which also would reflect on the price of a drop in design. If people are wanting something like that, which I am for one, then think about this as a component to the puzzle into someones desires/build

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?267899-Spydermag-Conversion-Frame

[p8ntbal4me]

If you don't mind me asking, what is the component cost per board?

What exactly are you looking for? all the components price per a single board? or the price of all 100 done with the components?

The voltage regulator was $7+
The MOSFET was $10

[p8ntbal4me]

Just more of FYI if some didn't' catch the thread but there was talk with Luke about making a economical grip frame that accepts a cheap and easy to find supply of boards from Spyder. He posed three options from very cost effect to more complex, which also would reflect on the price of a drop in design. If people are wanting something like that, which I am for one, then think about this as a component to the puzzle into someones desires/build

http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...nversion-Frame

Well that right there is something that can be done.

You COULD get a company to sell you an existing product at a reduced rate already in their surplus,.. which would carry some advantages to replacements.

The down side to that is MOST of the guys that make the boards you will look into:
Wont budge in price
Wont make custom ANYTHING (software, hardware)
Wont make any replacements for the boards you buy, for future replacements (once they sell the stock out, thats it. they make no more of them)

So there is somethings to think about......

Cost to design a new board from scratch is costly. Unless you already have a circuit that works for your needs. I have such a circuit,.. so my cost to reproduce the same concept in a new shape isnt hard.

Like I said,.... there are ups and downs to all designs.

My professional opinion for the electronics, would be to start a new base board and build a new finished product.

[OPBN]

What exactly are you looking for? all the components price per a single board? or the price of all 100 done with the components?

Was kinda curious what sorts of components were on the board and pricing paid. I'm a components broker so curious if some costs could be had by sourcing the components outside franchise distribution.

[p8ntbal4me]

Was kinda curious what sorts of components were on the board and pricing paid. I'm a components broker so curious if some costs could be had by sourcing the components outside franchise distribution.

I dont want to derail the topic: we can talk in PM

Answer to your question is: sourced from Mouser and Digi-Key because american board house i used has 100% part integration with their machines. The LEDs were expensive per unit even as a bulk buy (had to buy more than needed), the power and eye buttons were expensive, as were the MOSFETS, regulator, diodes, extra small capacotors,.... the key parts to make the gun work with the solenoid and voltage drove the cost up very quick! the resistors and such were cheap (again, have to buy more than you need)

The solenoids were very expensive :-(

It was almost the same to buy from distribution than it was to buy direct. I have accounts with line of credit and freight in Digi-key and Mouser,.. so it was the obvious choice.

Off 100 boards being sold I will have made less than $500. Thats before I paid myself for the hours into making all the harnesses, tools purchased,.....

When you take on a project like what is described in this thread,..... it can reach $10,000 before you make proto-type function before production.

[Xmagterror]

Lets see if I can explain this on a way I think Nobody would do. But try not to get myself banned.

Automag: Think of a 18 year old Virgin, Nice, tight & everything were it belongs place, works perfectly with some lube.
Autococker: Think of a career Porn star after her 10th 100 person gangbang, Loose, sloppy everything out of place, will work good with or without lube for awhile.

That is how the tolerances between the 2 compare. A autococker by default has way more allowance for tolerances to be off and still work. This is because everything fits losesly and seperatly. A mag valve on the other hand has everything toleranced tight enough that the bodys have to match.

word.
Interesting thread. You guys would be surprised how much time it takes to machine a new body or major mag component from start to finish. with only 25 pieces to be made, its going to be very expensive. and then factor in the design time.

xmags sold for around 1300 and that was around 13 years ago...and TK made around a thousand of them.

[cockerpunk]

I never thought to ask if they purchased their lv1,geo3.5 or vanquish new but somebody had to.I can believe the used market is strong for sure just look at PbNation a crap ton of sweet used electro's there.

FYI, most production guns batches are fairly small ~1000-3000 even for the most popular high ends. also have to take into account modern "sponsorship" which means at lease several hundred of those guns are going at cost, or slightly above, rather than full retail.

[p8ntbal4me]

FYI, most production guns batches are fairly small ~1000-3000 even for the most popular high ends. also have to take into account modern "sponsorship" which means at lease several hundred of those guns are going at cost, or slightly above, rather than full retail.

Yeah I don't believe that for a minute.
A "sponsored" gun for a team is nothing more than a milling change, or some cosmetic add on piece.

SP shockers for teams
impulses for teams
DM3 for teams
Angel LCD for teams.....


The list is a very long and documented one. These little changed PE makes from gun to gun isn't a change they do SPECIFICALLY for a team and a team alone (in talking like... A hard core design change that makes the gun function like no other and it's parts are one of a kind and not usable but in that single one gun)

Take the stock angel LCD: all the adrenaline guns were milled down versions of the OEM. Nothing more. Or take those AGD/PTP Micro EMAGs for the Jacksonville boys..... The battery was the major change. The rest of the gun was an OEM package.

I have not seen a custom built gun made for a team yet that was so specific, any other OEM line gun parts wouldn't work with it.

You might be correct about the price of the gun toward the team from the manufacturer,....

FYI: someone mentioned the number of AGD EMAGs made: it's 1400
Have that saved in an email from TK