Introducing The Deflator

[Patron God of Pirates]

I'm so pumped that you are following through with this that I'm seriously tempted to buy one just to support you. Stylistically it's not usually the type of thing I go for, but it's been growing on me. Looks like I'm going to get a chance to see the prototype in person so maybe I come around... Either way, good luck, keep it up, glad you're out there.

[luke]

I'm so pumped that you are following through with this that I'm seriously tempted to buy one just to support you. Stylistically it's not usually the type of thing I go for, but it's been growing on me. Looks like I'm going to get a chance to see the prototype in person so maybe I come around... Either way, good luck, keep it up, glad you're out there.

By the time you see Brian's prototype body, the special pricing promo will be closed and production will probably be done. If I dont sell enough to even hit stage two of the pricing structure, the chance of any extras being made will be slim. With two sales on the books and 1 prototype sold these becoming a stock item even in small quantities does not look likely at this point. This project was never about the Deflator design specifically so as of right now no more than 4 might be made (#4 would be for me) I am making slugs to have on hand but with my back log of projects I'm not sure how soon I can revisit and design another body. It will happen but no idea when with this operation being a one one band. Not to mention I've spent 7 straight months on this and am quite sick of bodies at this point.

[Patron God of Pirates]

I get it. If this were disposable income season I would be on that list. My business goes into survival mode June->September.

[robertreed711]

So, since it's not a unibody how about a "Rail-Less Automag Body"?

[luke]

So, since it's not a unibody how about a "Rail-Less Automag Body"?

It kind of has a rail.

[luke]

Few pictures and a little info.

First picture shows the air line routing beside detent, it's held in place by the front grip frame screw boss.



This is the low pressure airline routing around the sear and into the grip frame. Routing keeps line clear of the sear. This is the same milling and location as the routing in my rails for the OLTR.



This just shows the fitment of the detent inside the body.



The body comes with a new front grip frame screw. This picture shows how the front screw and detent line up horizontally. If the screw is too long as shown in the picture the detent will get eaten up by the bolt. I got in a habit of checking the detent with an allen wrench through the breach to make sure I had installed the correct screw.



The correct length screw will look like this, hidden from view of course. Before I machine the new carriers I'll recheck the design to see if I can make this a blind hole so a longer screw can't be used. This is V8 or V9 and previous designs wouldn't work with a blind hole, this one might because it has the shortest operational radius than earlier designs. Final version will be optimized if possible.

[robertreed711]

It kind of has a rail.

Maybe but not in the traditional sense but I guess you could call it a "Hidden Rail Automag Body" or an "Incorporated Rail Automag Body" or maybe a "Combo-Body".

[GoatBoy]

You put that very delicately. (lol) I actually thought I would have to defend that right out of the gate, I figured it would be the very first comment. It's the primary reason I didn't release the details until I knew it was a solid design. I didn't want the "common sense view" of the design to impend the R&D and put a negative spin on the project.

Actually the detent can not be depressed by the balls being feed into the breach as one would expect (i.e. common sense view). You have to consider the geometry involved, the breach is basically a 3/4" sphere , as are all Automags. We all know that paintballs are in the neighborhood of a .70" spherical diameter. The reason that is important is the bottom center point of the paintball (sphere) that touches the bottom of the breach is very small piece of real estate. In addition the detent is basically a ramp, low end at the ball high end leading into the "barrel portion" of the breach away from the paintball. In short the detent is actually located outside the breach perimeters. You can actually put a paintball in the breach, tilt the marker forward and it will not depress the detent. Really there is no way a ball can get on top of the detent because for all intents and purpose the detent is in the barrel.

Not sure if that makes sense(?)

Yeah, I know there are a lot of little variables and implementation details involved in this, that's why I didn't really say anything. I've done my own testing with this orientation of detent, and I can make it work, and I can make it not work heh.

In some ways, the "other detent" in the system is the ball stack itself. If the chambered ball rolls back ever so slightly, then the next ball lands forward on top, the next ball of the stack is a detent. Too much of this effect leads to breakage, but just a little and the paint is its own detent.

I think the ultimate design is a detent which makes contact with the *bolt* first, not the paint. The bolt is pushing both the paint and the detent, so all the energy and force comes from the same place. The difference is the energy acting on the detent doesn't need to go through the paint to get there. It's dangerous to make analogies in paintball forums, but it's like ramming your car into your garage door do get it open. You kind of prefer the door to open on its own...

So basically a detent which is kind of a cupped double-ramp -- the front ramp is the detent, and the back ramp is what the bolt strikes first to lower the detent. I think you could actually almost implement this in your design.

[renie]

The machine vapor used a detent like that but it was part of the eye pipe probably no good for a mag as you might get interference

[luke]

I think the ultimate design is a detent which makes contact with the *bolt* first, not the paint.

I put some thought into this early on and ultimately decided that it was over complicating the design and function, but I do get where your coming from. I also didnt want to machine that large of an opening in the breach area.

The bolt is pushing both the paint and the detent, so all the energy and force comes from the same place. The difference is the energy acting on the detent doesn't need to go through the paint to get there. It's dangerous to make analogies in paintball forums, but it's like ramming your car into your garage door do get it open. You kind of prefer the door to open on its own...

So basically a detent which is kind of a cupped double-ramp -- the front ramp is the detent, and the back ramp is what the bolt strikes first to lower the detent. I think you could actually almost implement this in your design.

I really think that the force applied to the paintball with the detent is minimal and does no harm. Paint is fairly pliable so I don't really see it as a problem. I designed and tested more than 10 versions before settling in on the final design. Keeping solutions simple generally works best for me.

[Loguzzzzzz]

Understanding the desire for a hidden detent, Here is a thought, instead of reinventing the wheel here why not just tap the bottom of the body (in the hidden area for an Angel threaded detent, like just about every other mag body. . . . .

[renie]

Tippman use a under mount detent and that's been used for years no problem
You should have zero issues with lukes design

[luke]

Understanding the desire for a hidden detent, Here is a thought, instead of reinventing the wheel here why not just tap the bottom of the body (in the hidden area for an Angel threaded detent, like just about every other mag body. . . . .

That was the very first consideration but wasn't pursued for a quite a few reasons. But ultimately size, location and manufacturing was the deterrent. Also designing a rebuild-able Angel detent would have been more work than going this route. Also, I think this is a superior design to the ball style detents.

[luke]

Tippman use a under mount detent and that's been used for years no problem
You should have zero issues with lukes design

Good point.

Also, in reality the mechanics of this detent is not a new idea. I really don't know Tippman at all but PTP uses this style detent with great success. Plus, I've always thought this was the best style of detent on the market.

[Nobody]

Tippman use a under mount detent and that's been used for years no problem
You should have zero issues with lukes design

While that is very true, the bolt designs are 2 different things and the speeds at which they work are way different. Granted i am not familiar with the modern day Tippmans, more with family owned guns than the corporation.