Introducing The Deflator

[Loguzzzzzz]

That was the very first consideration but wasn't pursued for a quite a few reasons. But ultimately size, location and manufacturing was the deterrent. Also designing a rebuild-able Angel detent would have been more work than going this route. Also, I think this is a superior design to the ball style detents. :)

My only reason here was to keep from having to make and stock special parts. PTP has done that with a few things and now try and find a sear pin for their bodies. There are rebuild-able Angel threaded detents already made but hey this is your party I was just offering my $0.02 for simplicity sake.

After being an Engineer for over 35 years I believe in K.I.S.S

[GoatBoy]

My only reason here was to keep from having to make and stock special parts. PTP has done that with a few things and now try and find a sear pin for their bodies. There are rebuild-able Angel threaded detents already made but hey this is your party I was just offering my $0.02 for simplicity sake.

After being an Engineer for over 35 years I believe in K.I.S.S

Things have changed over 35 years.

From what I can tell, the shape of this detent isn't really that complicated. A replacement part could easily be 3d printed in a pinch.

I tried to reuse the Tippmann detent myself, but found it wasn't quite shaped right. I think their shape is more geared toward their crappy monkey-metal based production process.

Angel detents are problematic to say the least. You know why rebulidable Angel threaded detents are so readily available?

Because so many of them need to be "rebuilt".

[Loguzzzzzz]

Things have changed over 35 years.. . . . . .

You're right, I used to draw on velum with ink, tape a drawing to a board and use a "T" square and a few triangles, now I use a computer and a mouse, not sure of your point but mine was to keep things as simple as possible and use parts that are readily available when ever possible. I've never really had any problems with Angel detents in any of my mags but I am sure others have. I've never even "rebuilt" one, never had to. . . .

[luke]

There are rebuild-able Angel threaded detents already made but hey this is your party

Bottom line is there's not room for an Angel detent on this platform. It's one of those ideas that is quickly shot down by the mathematics in the equation.

My only reason here was to keep from having to make and stock special parts. PTP has done that with a few things and now try and find a sear pin for their bodies.

Actually my goal is to manufacture everything in house and not use other vendors parts. The more I make or use off the shelf parts just lowers the cost of the final build for customers. The beauty is that these bodies will still accept a standard detent.

After being an Engineer for over 35 years I believe in K.I.S.S

Every point of view is retaliative to ones perspective, from my point of view this is the simplest approach to a hidden detent that I can manufacture in house. :)

I was just offering my $0.02 for simplicity sake.

I take no offense to your question. :) But you also know from an engineering point of view that brain storming ideas don't always pan out once you do the CAD work. Actually my ideas almost never pan out exactly as first envisioned. Automags have a working geometry that can't be changed and in general form follows function and in this case it also follows existing operational geometry that must be designed around. It's a reasonable assumption to think that using the Angel detent would be a good route, problem is it just doesn't work. :)

[luke]

Not to be interpreted as sniveling (lol) but the Automag community is a fickle bunch to say the least. I'm either accused not being original enough or I'm being too original and making a huge blunder. It's a tightrope act to say the least. :)

[luke]

From what I can tell, the shape of this detent isn't really that complicated. A replacement part could easily be 3d printed in a pinch.

Excellent point and one I keep forgetting. This is a very simple 2d shape, one that could be made with basic hand tools. Even without the cad files or one to copy you could probably make one with just a few attempts using basic tools.

[Loguzzzzzz]

Actually my goal is to manufacture everything in house . . . . . . . .

Enough said.

[Spider-TW]

Things have changed over 35 years.

Accessible CNC is a huge thing too. Luke has pocketed everything and has room for a bottom detent, with the hinge integrated already. He could probably mill the body (hole) for an angel detent into the marker body, where you drop in a ball and spring and cap it off. It would be highly integrated and never move into the bolt, but you would have the resulting wart on the side. All those cuts used to be huge production and prototype money. You youngsters have it so easy.

[luke]

Accessible CNC is a huge thing too. Luke has pocketed everything and has room for a bottom detent, with the hinge integrated already. He could probably mill the body (hole) for an angel detent into the marker body, where you drop in a ball and spring and cap it off. It would be highly integrated and never move into the bolt, but you would have the resulting wart on the side.

I looked into doing a "built in boss" to house the detent spring and ball for the hidden detent under the body but to be honest I feel that a ball style detent is an inferior design.

All those cuts used to be huge production and prototype money. You youngsters have it so easy.

LOL, I actually have a small fortune invested in this project as it is. That said though if I had to run all the prototyping through a job shop there is no way this project would have ever seen the light of day.

[Spider-TW]

Just imagine how many parts the British would use to make this in the 70s. As you shoot it, parts would be flying off, and it would continue working and sounding worse until it finally died.

The stickers and elastic wrist bands around it would be functional.

[luke]

Just imagine how many parts the British would use to make this in the 70s. As you shoot it, parts would be flying off, and it would continue working and sounding worse until it finally died.

The stickers and elastic wrist bands around it would be functional.

You lost me I was 2 in 1970.

[luke]

Small update.

I get a little paranoid about starting a production run the first go around (lol) so I spent a few days going over everything one last time. Plus I put two more cases of paint through a few different setups which I'm glad I did. Originally I planed on testing a Revy and HALO but spaced out the HALO the first phase of testing. On this past round of testing I put the HALO on and was getting quite a few double feeds. Luckily I had a dozen springs going into this and had a stronger one that work out great. I saved myself $150 since I haven't placed that final order yet. :)

Anyway this is where we're at, the second phase of production is set up ready to go.

[going_home]

You lost me I was 2 in 1970.

He lost me and I was 3 in 1960.....

[Spiritchaser]

I'm sure you know this but sometimes it's good to hear: seriously, don't rush!

I don't know your planning, finances, production schedule or any part of it, but if you can get some prototypes in the wild for a month or five...

Where I work we typically design and build one or three off systems, which are complex mechanical systems, and nearly ground up new designs. The universe almost always dreams up something we didn't. Its generally minor, and it's always fixable, but it isn't always a cheap fix.

The number of times I've wished we could have prototyped test units for critical subsystems is beyond counting. Don't lose the opportunity to look for bugs

Again... I'm sure this is all stuff you know, but you might not know that for everyone hoping for one of these now, there's probably someone worried about how soon now is

Full disclosure: I don't intend to buy one of these, I'm patiently waiting for a spyder-mag frame some time in the future. In the mean time, my gun shoots just fine in mech mode.

[GoatBoy]

You're right, I used to draw on velum with ink, tape a drawing to a board and use a "T" square and a few triangles, now I use a computer and a mouse, not sure of your point but mine was to keep things as simple as possible and use parts that are readily available when ever possible. I've never really had any problems with Angel detents in any of my mags but I am sure others have. I've never even "rebuilt" one, never had to. . . .

What is this "computer" and "mouse" you refer to? What are they for?

Excellent point and one I keep forgetting. This is a very simple 2d shape, one that could be made with basic hand tools. Even without the cad files or one to copy you could probably make one with just a few attempts using basic tools.

Which technically makes this a *simpler* part than an Angel detent. So switching to Angel detents would contradict KISS, and you would have ... a conundrum.

I think that sub-rail itself is also a mostly-2d part which is also printable for the purposes of prototyping. (Like say validating the modified detent idea.) Would need a different slot shape in the body as you indicated though.

All those cuts used to be huge production and prototype money. You youngsters have it so easy.

As a rotten spoiled little brat, that's why I'm not quite so absolute about avoiding complexity. I understand KISS, but lean toward a biomimicry approach where "materials are expensive and shape is cheap". It's sometimes hard to avoid complexity, particularly when you have actual goals to accomplish, so I've taken to loading up complexity into 1 or 2 parts which an entry level machine can handle for me.