Twistlock vs. Cocker Threaded Barrels

[ghost flanker]

Twist-lock or Cocker threaded barrels? Which do you prefer and why?
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Here are the advantages and disadvantages to each as far as I see it:

Twist-lock Pros
- Unrivaled removal and installation time
- Removal of breech makes for easier cleaning
- Unique design = players at the field taking an interest in your mag

Twist-lock Cons
- Generally only available in larger bore sizes (but not always)
- Twistlock bodies are made of heavy steal instead of aluminum
- Limited options for center-feed (but not impossible)
- Can be tricky to remove and install for players unfamiliar with TL

Cocker Threaded Pros
- Widely available...the industry standard
- Body options are made out of light-weight aluminum
- Finding a small bore barrel is much more obtainable
- Any cocker barrel can accept a body with any kind of feed (center-feed, warp-feed, mag feed, etc.)

Cocker Threaded Cons
- Comparatively tedious barrel removal
- Cleaning the breech in the event of a ball chop is difficult
- The step in diameter from breech to barrel could possibly maybe be harsher on brittle paint than a twist-lock, but I'm really skeptical about this.


Though I like both barrels, I tend to lean towards twist-locks whenever I can find a center-feed body to go with it. From purely a design standpoint, I think it is a better design. Yes, it is outdated in the sense that aluminum center-feed bodies for it just aren't an option, but I do not think that is the fault of the design, itself. If I could design the perfect mag for myself, it would have a twist-lock barrel. No question!

But that's just me.

[going_home]

Inception Designs, Freak back, Stump front, Apex2 tip.

Cocker because Apex2.


I have always despised twistlocks.

[ghost flanker]

Cocker because Apex2.

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[going_home]

Awesome.

I also dont care for using an elbow to attach the hopper....

[ghost flanker]

Also a legitimate concern. Ask and ye shall receive

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[blackdeath1k]

Awesome.

I also dont care for using an elbow to attach the hopper....

Now that I agree with. I hate all of the rerouting of paint to get it from point A to point B.

For the most part I really don't care which version is used unless paint is broken in it. Then TL all the way for cleaning reasons.

TL in its final form still had one key issue to me. The detent system is horrible with FF hoppers. And FF was in wide use at the end of the TL era. Glued in Geo detent fingers can work basically like a docs adaptor. TL in today's use has an added issue of barrel size due to the ever shrinking balls.

[ghost flanker]

Yep. Side-feed bodies, and especially powerfeed bodies are the most undesirable aspect of twist-lock systems for me. A full hopper that is 5 inches higher than it needs to be and shifted to the right is not what I call ergonomic or low-profile. If given the choice between a TL powerfeed and a cocker threaded center-feed, I'll usually go with the latter. But if I can get around this limitation, which I can, then TL becomes a very attractive option.


Blackdeath1k,

I haven't really experienced the issues you're having. I mostly shoot Grafitti. What brand of paint are you using? What's the ball and bore diameters?

By the way, there's one thing I particularly like about TL detents over cocker detents: TL detents are totally internal and make for a nice, clean look.

[blackdeath1k]

Yep. Side-feed bodies, and especially powerfeed bodies are the most undesirable aspect of twist-lock systems for me. A full hopper that is 5 inches higher than it needs to be and shifted to the right is not what I call ergonomic or low-profile. If given the choice between a TL powerfeed and a cocker threaded center-feed, I'll usually go with the later. But if I can get around this limitation, which I can, then TL becomes a very attractive option.


Blackdeath1k,

I haven't really experienced the issues you're having. I mostly shoot Grafitti. What brand of paint are you using? What's the ball and bore diameters?

By the way, there's one thing I particularly like about TL detents over cocker detents: TL detents are totally internal and make for a nice, clean look.

Old faithful classic RT. New parabolic power feed plug. VLBow or armson elbow. L7 or L10 bolt.. Dye UL barrel, many different plastic new agd detents. halo2 and or rotor. As far as paint I've used a lot of different paint. 4 or 5 valken flavors. Marbs. Economy paint. Scenario games at 5 or 6 different fields in different areas dictates the paint. So far I have really liked the quality of the valken I have shot. It tends to be on the small side compared to the paint of yester year.

Only issue I have had barrel related is the detent being to flush for today's paint combined with FF hopper. Had bigger issues with my halo2 than I have with my rotor. I never could get the stack pressure light enough on the halo. I did learn that building up a liquid rubber on the back of the detent head would help also. It would push the detent farther in the breach. Geo finger detent is the plan for this year. I just haven't made it to my dad's to mill the new slots. In all honesty I didn't use my mag almost all last year. Rotator cuff gave out and I went the lightest and most economical I could go with marker wise. Bought a used Geo3 for a steal and got a Ninja UL tank to go with it.

[bowcycle]

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Anyone else drooling?

[ghost flanker]

Black Death1k,

Hmm. Weird. An Ultralite is .688, which is an overbore for any of today's paint. But Valken Grafitti still averages at about .685 to .686 here in so cal where humidity and paint-swelling is minimal; that's pretty big for today's standards and really not that far from being bore-matched. With HK Supreme (.675 ...wtf!), I could see how a detent failure would occur, but you shouldn't be having this problem with Grafitti. Have you tried using a wire nubbin and adjusting the height with needle nose pliers?


bowcycle,

Haha, thanks. Going_home inspired the idea to put the Apex 2 with the Deadly Winds adapter on a minimag barrel just yesterday. I never even thought of doing it until he said that putting an Apex on a twist-lock wasn't an option. Fits perfectly and looks pretty damn good, too, if I don't say so myself. Who says these discussions aren't productive? Classic MOTM?

[bowcycle]

Classic MOTM?

Yes, please.

[going_home]

Black Death1k,

Hmm. Weird. An Ultralite is .688, which is an overbore for any of today's paint. But Valken Grafitti still averages at about .685 to .686 here in so cal where humidity and paint-swelling is minimal; that's pretty big for today's standards and really not that far from being bore-matched. With HK Supreme (.675 ...wtf!), I could see how a detent failure would occur, but you shouldn't be having this problem with Grafitti. Have you tried using a wire nubbin and adjusting the height with needle nose pliers?


bowcycle,

Haha, thanks. Going_home inspired the idea to put the Apex 2 with the Deadly Winds adapter on a minimag barrel just yesterday. I never even thought of doing it until he said that putting an Apex on a twist-lock wasn't an option. Fits perfectly and looks pretty damn good, too, if I don't say so myself. Who says these discussions aren't productive? Classic MOTM?

Question is does the Apex function as its supposed to on the twist lock....

[ghost flanker]

Question is does the Apex function as its supposed to on the twist lock....

That's a good question. Although I can't imagine why it wouldn't work, I haven't actually tested it yet. It works just fine on a Deadly Wind Fibur X barrel, but this might be the first time anyone has ever tried this on a twist-lock. Only one way to find out for sure. Get back to you with the results after this weekend. I got an outlaw woodsball game this Sunday.

[going_home]

When I bought an Inception Freak back the front needed to be .697 for use with an Apex tip.

So bore size is part of the equation for the Apex to function correctly.

[Spider-TW]

Yep. Side-feed bodies, and especially powerfeed bodies are the most undesirable aspect of twist-lock systems for me. A full hopper that is 5 inches higher than it needs to be and shifted to the right is not what I call ergonomic or low-profile. If given the choice between a TL powerfeed and a cocker threaded center-feed, I'll usually go with the latter. But if I can get around this limitation, which I can, then TL becomes a very attractive option.


Blackdeath1k,

I haven't really experienced the issues you're having. I mostly shoot Grafitti. What brand of paint are you using? What's the ball and bore diameters?

By the way, there's one thing I particularly like about TL detents over cocker detents: TL detents are totally internal and make for a nice, clean look.

Something I liked about Luke's old feedneck conversions was that they were low and just a little outside, so that if the loader is heavy, you can roll your wrist over just that much to balance the weight and profile. When the paint is small, you can run a gravity loader, adjust the force on the hopper, or try taping or backing up the detent. Or, you get out a ULE body mag.